Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

    Maybe the thread title is kinda loaded, but when comparing the two pups for my next purchase, I found some quotes that I thought were interesting :



    Quote Originally Posted by RayBarbeeMusic View Post
    Riddle me this:

    If the '59 neck and Jazz neck both use 42, or the jazz vs. any other 'standard' paf for that matter, and the DCR really isn't much different, and using A5............

    Why does the jazz neck sound so damn different?
    Two things:
    1. the '59 uses Plain Enamel wire, the Jazz SPN (Single Poly Nylon) wire.
    2. the coil geometry (the way the wire is layed into the bobbin) is different in both cases.

    HTH, (LtKojak)



    So, the pups are identical except for the wire coating (and a tiny .1K resistance difference)? I can definitely hear differences in clips, but I guess I'm just kinda surprised that one aspect can make as much difference as I've thought I've heard. Otoh, maybe the clips aren't the most accurate representations.

    I've had a 59N before, really liked it. I'm inclined to try the Jazz just to experiment, but I'd like some more knowledge beforehand...even if it's somewhat useless in my hands lol!

    I did also read about a 59/Jazz hybrid...maybe that is ticket (And if I understand correctly, that is just swapping out a bobbin from a 59 to a Jazz and vice versa).

  • #2
    Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

    Thereís more to the tone of a pickup than the magnet, wire gauge, and DCR. But I still think having that information as a buyer is more useful than not. The sentient might also be grouped in here as a pickup that has similar specs on paper. And then the Hyperion neck which shares the dna off the sentient. The 59 is warmer than the Jazz. If your guitar needs or you want brighter clearer pickup than the Jazz is a good choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

      They are very close in tone IME. I don't think I'd be able to tell them apart if I didn't know which was which.
      Originally posted by LesStrat
      Yogi Berra was correct.
      Originally posted by JOLLY
      I do a few chord things, some crappy lead stuff, and then some rhythm stuff.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

        I'm pretty sure I remember reading in this forum that the Jazz and A2Pro are both 43AWG. I wanna say it could have even been Frank Falbo saying that?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

          Originally posted by Blobby View Post
          So, the pups are identical except for the wire coating (and a tiny .1K resistance difference)? I can definitely hear differences in clips, but I guess I'm just kinda surprised that one aspect can make as much difference as I've thought I've heard. Otoh, maybe the clips aren't the most accurate representations.
          According to my archives, the last ones that I've tested measured a resistance of 7.15k (SH1) and 7.03k (SH2) for an inductance of 3.63H (SH1) and 3.57H (SH2).

          Yep, that's pretty close specs... but the coil coupling due to coils capacitance in each pickup was different enough to generate distinct tonal characters, with a less even response from the SH1 in the ultra high frequencies (coils capacitance being due to the wire insulation and how this wire has been layered, BTW).

          The difference between the two PU's as I hear it is of the same kind than between a P.A.F. or Patent Sticker Gibson HB vs a T-Top : IME, some patent sticker T-Tops sound really close to a SH2n and conversely...
          Last edited by freefrog; 05-17-2020, 10:23 AM.
          Duncan user since the 80's...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

            I had both in neck on a Epi LP standard 15 years ago -way different.

            Original pickups on Epi were boomy sounding so was attracted to Jazz as choice and JB in bridge.
            But too sharp sounding as I felt.

            So went for 59' and much more LP neck came through. As said, warmer without a pointy high, as one might describe Jazz.

            So 59' is close to 36th anniversary paf, being a long time since, but DiMarzio is what I use today in Gibson LP Standard(got rid of Burstbucker Pro's).

            But as with every pickup - what guitar is it for?
            One guitar might accentuate different things than the next.
            So going this pickup sound this or that is not relevant unless saying which guitar and which wood there is etc.

            Les Paul is by many favoured with P90 in neck as an example. Being mahogany neck pup needs a little high boost, but in the right spot.
            My Epi LP was alder body and clearly different.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

              Identical specs does not mean identical pickups. There are factors not included in specs that apparently matter.

              To me the 59N and JazzN sound very different in the same guitar. Iíve used them both in the same Les Paul and SG. The 59N has a loose thumpy kind of out of control almost Fender single coil-like low end but even on top. The JazzN has a brighter clear top end and tighter more controlled low end and some chime to it, IME.

              My holy grail neck tone is a ďPAFĒ as heard on classic rock and jazz recordings, from Les Paul himself to Clapton to Bloomfield to Page, etc. the JazzN is closer than the 59N (but definitely not quite right.). A Pearly Gates neck is probably the closest stock model for me, followed by Seth, followed by a 59N/A4, followed by an A2P; which is a Jazz with an A2.

              Donít go by specs. Go by sound.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                Originally posted by Larioso View Post
                But as with every pickup - what guitar is it for?
                Epi LP. But it's an oddball with a dive-only trem, no TOM. Otoh, I do have another Epi LP with a TOM I could do some pup swapping with for some tests.

                Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post
                Identical specs does not mean identical pickups. There are factors not included in specs that apparently matter.

                Donít go by specs. Go by sound.
                Do you mean going off of "identical specs" we know? I guess that makes sense since there's certainly a few specs we don't know...and most folks probably wouldn't contextually understand it all anyway, myself included.

                I just like to learn though. I'd like to have a more informed purchasing decision, fwiw. Plus it's just interesting to gather knowledge from all the awesome forum members here...this place is cool

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                  They sound quite different to me. Enamel versus poly wire, and possibly a different wind pattern too.

                  Then again, all three of my 59Ns are from between '79 and '83. They had the old style black magnets which reportedly sound different from the import polished A5s used in modern 59Ns. Of course, two of those have now also been swapped.
                  .
                  "My hovercraft is full of eels."

                  .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                    Originally posted by eclecticsynergy View Post
                    Then again, all three of my 59Ns are from between '79 and '83. They had the old style black magnets which reportedly sound different from the import polished A5s used in modern 59Ns. Of course, two of those have now also been swapped.
                    I've also a couple of those (with the sticker pictured in my avatar) and in mine, coils are distinctively different when compared to modern SH1's: darker PE, loosely wound and unpotted.

                    They sound different too: my vintage ones have much more mids and a softer attack.

                    Looks like we must consider the SH1 as differing from itself according to the era of production. LOL.

                    For the record, my statement above was about current 4 wires iterations and not about older ones. :-)
                    Duncan user since the 80's...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                      they sounds quite different to me. the jazz was more bright and less boomy.

                      it's more about the winding pattern than the size of wire. the 59 has different winding pattern than the jazz as it was wound on the leesona with all its quirkiness while the jazz wound on more modern machine which more uniform.
                      even the slugs and screws on the 59 has different pattern.

                      I also agree the older pickups from late 70s - early 80s do sound different. there are several factors that might contributed on that.
                      also, I'm not sure when Seymour got his leesona, so early 59 model might not be wound on the leesona. but it just my speculation though.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                        The big difference is the bass on the 59 which is much much bigger.
                        Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                          Originally posted by freefrog View Post
                          I've also a couple of those (with the sticker pictured in my avatar) and in mine, coils are distinctively different when compared to modern SH1's: darker PE, loosely wound and unpotted.

                          They sound different too: my vintage ones have much more mids and a softer attack.

                          Looks like we must consider the SH1 as differing from itself according to the era of production. LOL.

                          For the record, my statement above was about current 4 wires iterations and not about older ones. :-)
                          Ah, didn't realize the coils are different now too; thought it was just the magnets that were changed.
                          I don't know why they would mess with such a great basic formula. But I suppose the new version sounds good too.

                          Also didn't realize 4-wire was standard now. For a long time those had to be ordered as a shop floor custom.
                          I guess they were selling more that way than the classic braided-lead ones.
                          Certainly better to have the option, IMO. Lots of players are wiring for splits these days.
                          .
                          "My hovercraft is full of eels."

                          .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                            Originally posted by slim_blues_boy View Post
                            they sounds quite different to me. the jazz was more bright and less boomy.

                            it's more about the winding pattern than the size of wire. the 59 has different winding pattern than the jazz as it was wound on the leesona with all its quirkiness while the jazz wound on more modern machine which more uniform.
                            even the slugs and screws on the 59 has different pattern.

                            I also agree the older pickups from late 70s - early 80s do sound different. there are several factors that might contributed on that.
                            also, I'm not sure when Seymour got his leesona, so early 59 model might not be wound on the leesona. but it just my speculation though.
                            So I looked into the Leesona, I can see how tech changing can effect things. How the coil is wound seems like a bit of a debated topic, but it seems like it matters (from my low resolution perspective).

                            But what do you mean by the 59's slugs and screws pattern? Are you saying they are different from the Jazz? They look the same, but maybe they are different metals or lengths?

                            I believe I've read "vintage PAF" style pickups usually have Alnico 5 rod/slugs, and fillister nickle screws. Not sure if that applies to both the 59 and Jazz, but I guessed as much.

                            Thanks all for your replies!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Jazz and 59 necks...really much difference?

                              Originally posted by Blobby View Post
                              I believe I've read "vintage PAF" style pickups usually have Alnico 5 rod/slugs, and fillister nickle screws.
                              Hello,
                              AlNiCo slugs can be found in single coils but are really rare in humbuckers (except in special PU's like the Stag Mags). P.A.F. style humbuckers host slugs and screws made of various steel grades, with more or less carbon content. Link: https://www.pafhumbucker.com/paf-pickups-screws.html
                              Duncan user since the 80's...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X