Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

3 Wire pickup readings don't make sense (INF Ibanez)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 3 Wire pickup readings don't make sense (INF Ibanez)

    I'm testing some stock pickups I got from ebay ages ago.

    The pickup has 3 wires: white, black, red. Supposedly, this is hot/ground/coil tap

    DC Resistance measured between each pair

    R/B = 8
    R/W = 8
    B/W = 5

    If the wire ( W <--> B) runs through the entire pickup, both coils, it should have a higher resistance than the other two coils individually. I would (perhaps) expect 13, 8, 5. Or maybe 16, 8, 8,

    Someone please try to explain these readings.


  • #2
    There's info you're not giving us. You need to see where those wires are coming from. If it's a humbucker, there has to be at least 4 wires (a beginning and end of each coil), even if two of them are connected together.

    Take the tape off and see what wires are there and how they're connected.
    Originally Posted by IanBallard
    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post
      There's info you're not giving us. You need to see where those wires are coming from. If it's a humbucker, there has to be at least 4 wires (a beginning and end of each coil), even if two of them are connected together.

      Take the tape off and see what wires are there and how they're connected.
      Its a humbucker. It is wired internally like this.
      https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-id...humbucker.html

      I have wired the pickup with black and white as ground and hot respectively, and its working great. (The red apparently is the combined wires and can serve as a coil tap.)

      What doesnt make sense is the resistance readings I get.

      Comment


      • #4
        Could the two coils simply be 5k and 3k? They wanted the "tap" to be a little hotter?

        Oops. Never mind. I see what you're saying. 8, 8, 5 ???

        Comment


        • #5
          I love a good mystery. I have no idea how'd you get readings like that. But now I am super curious as we investigate this more.
          Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Top-L View Post

            Its a humbucker. It is wired internally like this.
            https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-id...humbucker.html

            I have wired the pickup with black and white as ground and hot respectively, and its working great. (The red apparently is the combined wires and can serve as a coil tap.)

            What doesnt make sense is the resistance readings I get.


            What you have said and the diagram that you linked don't fit together at all...as in, it doesn't make any sense. It can't give you those readings. Impossible. No way!

            The diagram shows:
            Red as start of the north coil (which would be used as hot/lead).
            White as finish of the north coil and White as finish of the south coil (which are connected together to form the series link, when this is grounded you get the coil split to the north/slug coil).
            Bare as the start of the south coil (which would be used as the ground when you don't have additional switching for parallel or phase).

            Neither the way the pup is wired in the diagram nor how you say you have it wired will give you the meter readings you posted.

            What you need to do is take all the added wires off of the pup (without disturbing the coil winding wires) and measure between the start and finish of each coil...separately (from what you said that reading should be 4-5k ohms).
            Then hook up the pup like it is supposed to be...(south/screw coil start = ground; south/screw coil finish = connected to north/slug coil finish; north/slug coil start = hot/lead). I would also add a bare wire to the baseplate for use as the ground wire to give you options for parallel or phase wiring. If you don't use those options, you would just solder the bare and the south coil start wires together for ground.
            Last edited by GuitarDoc; 08-03-2020, 06:07 AM.
            Originally Posted by IanBallard
            Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post



              What you have said and the diagram that you linked don't fit together at all...as in, it doesn't make any sense. It can't give you those readings. Impossible. No way!

              The diagram shows:
              Red as start of the north coil (which would be used as hot/lead).
              White as finish of the north coil and White as finish of the south coil (which are connected together to form the series link, when this is grounded you get the coil split to the north/slug coil).
              Bare as the start of the south coil (which would be used as the ground when you don't have additional switching for parallel or phase).

              Neither the way the pup is wired in the diagram nor how you say you have it wired will give you the meter readings you posted.

              What you need to do is take all the added wires off of the pup (without disturbing the coil winding wires) and measure between the start and finish of each coil...separately (from what you said that reading should be 4-5k ohms).
              Then hook up the pup like it is supposed to be...(south/screw coil start = ground; south/screw coil finish = connected to north/slug coil finish; north/slug coil start = hot/lead). I would also add a bare wire to the baseplate for use as the ground wire to give you options for parallel or phase wiring. If you don't use those options, you would just solder the bare and the south coil start wires together for ground.
              The pickup is in the guitar and working as intended. Sounds great, so I'm not going to take it apart to figure out how to wire it when it is already wired correctly.

              The question is though, how would it give those readings? What internal wiring could cause that? I also measured the neck pickup and it is the same scheme, values are same but relative.

              The point of the thread is that I can't imagine any wiring scheme that would give those numbers. Can you?

              I created the thread so I could learn proper way to wire it. I'm since following directions found online (white and black are hot and ground, red disconnected). Both coils are active, technically it could be paralled but it sounds series and its hot. Maybe its really a parallel pickup that is designed to sound series? IDK.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Top-L View Post

                The pickup is in the guitar and working as intended.
                Obviously NOT.

                Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                I'm not going to take it apart to figure out how to wire it when it is already wired correctly.
                The point of the thread is that I can't imagine any wiring scheme that would give those numbers. Can you?
                The question is though, how would it give those readings? What internal wiring could cause that?
                By your own admission/observation it cannot be wired correctly because if it were it CANNOT give those readings. You're asking questions, but you are not listening to the answers! And you are not accepting the advice/instructions which could get you the answers! You specifically ask me for my advice and help and slap me in the face by ignoring it.


                Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                I created the thread so I could learn proper way to wire it.
                You say you want to learn, but you are totally unwilling to accept help and advice that could facilitate that. You are dogmatically holding to the idea that you have wired it correctly even while admitting that you haven't, and that something is not right.

                Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                I'm since following directions found online (white and black are hot and ground, red disconnected). Both coils are active, technically it could be paralled but it sounds series and its hot. Maybe its really a parallel pickup that is designed to sound series? IDK.
                "A parallel pickup that is designed to sound series"?! Really?!

                All of this tells me that you have absolutely no clue as to what goes on in a pup or how to wire it. Why are you being so resistant to learning or accepting the answers?!


                I understand guitar electronics and how pups are wired and can absolutely give you the answers that you "seek". But the only thing I don't understand is why you started this thread in the first place.
                Last edited by GuitarDoc; 08-03-2020, 07:25 AM.
                Originally Posted by IanBallard
                Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GuitarDoc View Post

                  Obviously NOT.

                  It is wired in the way that all online wiring diagrams and discussions point to. I can confirm both coils are engaged from tap test. It is either series or parallel, but it definietely sounds series.

                  I thought this was an interesting logic problem. There are only so many ways that the wires can be combined. IS there a way that could explain the values given?

                  Try to use deductive reasoning WITHOUT opening up the pickup and tracing wires. Because yeah, if I wanted to take the pickup apart I could do that. (I did inspect the open neck pickup I had used for a magnet swap and the wiring was obscured so there was nothing visibly obvious without having to remove shielding.)

                  This isn't me covering my ears and refusing to listen, its me posing an interesting logic problem.




                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This being measured while installed? Black and White are soldered and Red is floating? This is a ~16k, hot Humbucker?
                    Oh no.....


                    Oh Yeah!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
                      This being measured while installed? Black and White are soldered and Red is floating? This is a ~16k, hot Humbucker?
                      It was uninstalled. I know it doesnt make sense.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is the original wiring diagram. Unknown if the switch is a "standard" 5 way.

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	W96039.gif Views:	0 Size:	38.9 KB ID:	6006669

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is a perplexing question. I drew up a bunch of resistor schemes trying to create a situation with those readings. I couldn't. Here's a long shot. Were you holding the leads with your fingers? It's August. The tiniest bit of perspiration and/or moisture on your fingers could throw off a measurement by a significant amount. Then again, if you used clips, it's a moot point.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                            Here is the original wiring diagram. Unknown if the switch is a "standard" 5 way.

                            Click image for larger version Name:	W96039.gif Views:	0 Size:	38.9 KB ID:	6006669
                            That really doesn't help us resolve the question. The only answer can come from measuring each coil as I suggested. This is not a problem of logic when logic already tells us that it can't happen as you say. There are too many assumptions/guesses that need to be made and still come up with the wrong guess for a solution. The simplest way to answer the question is to measure each coil...and it is very simple and the answer would be absolute and concise.
                            Originally Posted by IanBallard
                            Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                              Try to use deductive reasoning WITHOUT opening up the pickup and tracing wires. Because yeah, if I wanted to take the pickup apart I could do that. (I did inspect the open neck pickup I had used for a magnet swap and the wiring was obscured so there was nothing visibly obvious without having to remove shielding.)

                              This isn't me covering my ears and refusing to listen, its me posing an interesting logic problem.

                              You realize, don't you, that all of the logic and deductive reasoning in the world will do you no good unless you can prove your hypothesis with facts. Unless you open up the pup and check the wires, you have no facts.

                              You say you have no problem taking out the pup and checking it...well just do it then! Take it out, remove the black tape on the coils (what you refer to as "shielding", I presume), and check out the coil wires and see how they are ACTUALLY connected. (Because your "deductive reasoning" so far has failed miserably!).

                              You may be very surprised at how wrong you are, and we all will be a little bit enlightened with the answer. You DO want to learn something, right?

                              Just do it and quit making feeble excuses. If you really don't want to do that or are afraid you might damage it when taking off the tape, just send it to me and I'll be glad to do it for you.

                              Originally Posted by IanBallard
                              Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X