Non-Altered P90 Archtop Installation (into HB Hole)

[ArtieToo]

Can I ask a dumb question? Am I "Googling" the wrong thing? Isn't a Gibson L5 a $10k+ jazz box? Wouldn't it be better to put P-90's into something that was designed for them?

Sorry. That's four dumb questions.

[LMark]

It's an L5 Studio. Early L5s came with P90s. Mine is not signed by Wes Montgomery or anything. Nevertheless, I intend to make no irreversible mods. [That's four dumb answers . . . (hee hee).] LMark

[ArtieToo]

But good answers.

[GuitarDoc]

Still, it's an L-5! Not some $100 cheapo experimental blank. Why screw up a nice guitar (because you WILL screw it up) when you have way better options available? You think you're going to create some kind of amazing breakthrough, but you're not. A "one-of-a-kind"? Yes...that nobody but you will want.

[Mincer]

I did have to look this model up, as I wasn't familiar with it. If I had it, it would get a set of Antiquities and call it a day. What kind of sound are you going for that you can't get with Phat Cats, P-Rails or other pickups? What will genuine P90s bring here that you can't get anywhere else?

[Lewguitar]

What will genuine P90s bring here that you can't get anywhere else?

They'll sound like Lowell Folsom, T-Bone Walker, Grant Green, even Chuck Berry...and all the jazzy bluesy guys who came up in 40's and 50's who played Gibson hollowbodies with P-90's.

It seems that Gibson used different magnets in P-90's throughout the years and that's one reason there's so much variation in sound.

50's Gibson PAFs could have had Alnico 2, 4 or 5, and the same is probably true for P-90's.

Alnico 2 P-90's sound different than Alnico 5 P-90's.

I think the easiest and cheapest way to find out what sound is right for each of us is to do your own magnet swapping.

If that was my ax I'd remove the pickup covers, buy some roughcast and polished A2, A3, A4 and A5 and have at it.

A3 is great for jazz. Very clean but soulful. A3 neck and A2 bridge makes for a nice humbucker set for jazz and blues.

A2 and A2 too.

Mincer's suggestion of Antiquitys is good, and I have them in three guitars.

59's would be fine too and buying them uncovered makes them easier to swap magnets in.

[Mincer]

They'll sound like Lowell Folsom, T-Bone Walker, Grant Green, even Chuck Berry...and all the jazzy bluesy guys who came up in 40's and 50's who played Gibson hollowbodies.

It seems that Gibson used different magnets in P-90's throughout the years and that's one reason there's so much variation in sound.

50's Gibson PAFs could have had Alnico 2, 4 or 5, and the same is probably true for P-90's.

Alnico 2 P-90's sound different than Alnico 5 P-90's.

I think the easiest and cheapest way to find out what sound is right for each of us is to do your own magnet swapping.

If that was my ax I'd remove the pickup covers, buy some roughcast and polished A2, A3, A4 and A5 and have at it.

A3 is great for jazz. Very clean but soulful. A3 neck and A2 bridge makes for a nice humbucker set for jazz and blues.

A2 and A2 too.

Right, I get that. But if you can't put in P90s without really altering the guitar (and that is something you don't want to do), you have to look at alternatives.

[Lewguitar]

Right, I get that. But if you can't put in P90s without really altering the guitar (and that is something you don't want to do), you have to look at alternatives.

I'm with you. I'd give up on P-90's and leave humbuckers in that ax.

But I might mod the humbuckers or change them to a different humbucker.

[LMark]

What kind of sound are you going for that you can't get with Phat Cats, P-Rails or other pickups? What will genuine P90s bring here that you can't get anywhere else?

I play Travis style. Can't afford a Super 400. I just dont want to drill a hole in the top of the L5 Studio. It's Alpine White and some folk are goo-goo gaa-gaa over that model and color for some reason. I've only heard good things about the Antiquities. Thom Bresh, in fact, told me that those pickups are by far the most important factor in the guitar that he plays. The top-notch Gibson luthier who stayed in Kalamazoo (now deceased and his name slips my mind) built that guitar for Thom. It didn't sound right until they put Antiquities in it. LMark

[Lewguitar]

I play Travis style. Can't afford a Super 400. I just dont want to drill a hole in the top of the L5 Studio. It's Alpine White and some folk are goo-goo gaa-gaa over that model and color for some reason. I've only heard good things about the Antiquities. Thom Bresh, in fact, told me that those pickups are by far the most important factor in the guitar that he plays. The top-notch Gibson luthier who stayed in Kalamazoo (now deceased and his name slips my mind) built that guitar for Thom. It didn't sound right until they put Antiquities in it. LMark

So you're after Merle Travis' sound. He played a souped up Super 400 with P-90's didn't he? Early 50's model.

If anyone would know, Seymour would know how to recreate those pickups in a humbucker size.

Maybe he and MJ could do something a little different with the Phatcat design.

Might be worth a call to the Duncan Custom Shop.

The Antiquity humbuckers are made in the Custom Shop too.

They're my favorites.

[ArtieToo]

I just dont want to drill a hole in the top of the L5 Studio. It's Alpine White and some folk are goo-goo gaa-gaa over that model and color for some reason.

I'd love to see that. Any chance of posting a pic?

[LMark]

Artie, it's a poor quality pic, I was in a hurry taking a quick inventory. I think that by the time I took this pic I had swapped the oriignal '57 Classic PUPS for Lindy's Unbuckers. I built a new harness with coil-taps and also phase shift. LMark

[GuitarDoc]

Beautiful guitar.

[GuitarDoc]

It reminds me of when I was having some repair work done on one of my guitars in a small repair shop in San Francisco in the mid to late 60's. Steven Stills came in (with Neil Young, of course, when they were with Buffalo Springfield) to get his L-5 repaired. We got to talking and he showed me a big busted-in hole in the back of his guitar caused from it "falling" off stage...yeah right. He figured that while he was getting the back fixed he would also have them cut down the thickness to be more of a 330 depth. My first thought was, "what a waste of a great sounding jazz box". I asked him why he would do such a thing and he said that it was just too uncomfortable for him to play. I didn't say anything, but I thought...what the heck. Here is a master acoustic guitar player that has a hard time with an L-5?!

What a pair of musicians. Back in those days they were super great guys. Steven was a little aloof but Neil was very down to earth...a bit weird to say the least, but really nice and very friendly. I guess over the years Neil got weirder and Steven got cockier. But 2 really great musicians in their own right.

I've always been a big fan of David Crosby (when he was with the Byrds), Steven Stills (when he was with the Buffalo Springfield), and Graham Nash (when he was with the Hollies), but when they came together as CSN, that was some of the best songwriting and performing I've ever known.

Anyway, just thought I'd share that bit of trivia.

[Mincer]

It reminds me of when I was having some repair work done on one of my guitars in a small repair shop in San Francisco in the mid to late 60's. Steven Stills came in (with Neil Young, of course, when they were with Buffalo Springfield) to get his L-5 repaired. We got to talking and he showed me a big busted-in hole in the back of his guitar caused from it "falling" off stage...yeah right. He figured that while he was getting the back fixed he would also have them cut down the thickness to be more of a 330 depth. My first thought was, "what a waste of a great sounding jazz box". I asked him why he would do such a thing and he said that it was just too uncomfortable for him to play. I didn't say anything, but I thought...what the heck. Here is a master acoustic guitar player that has a hard time with an L-5?!

What a pair of musicians. Back in those days they were super great guys. Steven was a little aloof but Neil was very down to earth...a bit weird to say the least, but really nice and very friendly. I guess over the years Neil got weirder and Steven got cockier. But 2 really great musicians in their own right.

I've always been a big fan of David Crosby (when he was with the Byrds), Steven Stills (when he was with the Buffalo Springfield), and Graham Nash (when he was with the Hollies), but when they came together as CSN, that was some of the best songwriting and performing I've ever known.

Anyway, just thought I'd share that bit of trivia.

Very cool story. Those 3 continue to be a big inspiration to me.