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How do I find the out put level for the Saturday night special pick up?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by jeremy View Post
    9.75k is like stupid high for a paf. most were 7.5k to 8.8k and even thats being fairly generous. dont know if ive heard of one being over 9k.

    that aside, its a very cool pup set for sure
    Seth Lover specified 5000 turns of 42 ga. copper on each coil of a 50's PAF and if you do that you get a pickup that reads pretty low. Well under 8K.

    I don't remember the number but it's 7.8k or less.

    It seems to me that Seymour winds his "PAF" pickups so the neck pickup is pretty close to Seth Lover's original specs but the bridge pickup is wound quite a bit hotter.

    The Saturday Night Special set , with a 9.75K bridge pickup is "stupid high" for a PAF. But apparently it sounds great, so there it is.
    Last edited by Lewguitar; 08-06-2020, 05:40 PM.
    “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

    Comment


    • #17
      The only time tests were done were about 5-6 years ago. I found this list from the thread I remember. I don't know how scientific this was but I think they really worked hard to provide consistent picking. At least it gives you a good idea when comparing different pickups. From what I remember, this was the only time this info was published. From the original post:

      Good afternoon forum friends, as many of you know we are deep in the midst of a website design (and yes for those of you rolling your eyes, it has been an extraordinarily long journey as we completely re-design, record and sample our many, many pickups). I wanted to give you guys a peak at some upcoming mV data. You all know the limitations of using DC resistance as an indicator of output, a much better indicator is mV. We've devised a precise and repeatable method for testing pickup output which we believe corresponds closely to actual playing. We start with a Telecaster that has an oversized cavity routed to allow easy pickup installation. The guitar is carefully tuned to standard tuning (consistent tuning is important). We add a custom machined, mechanical, spring loaded strum arm with a tempered, .004” thick spring steel pick. We install the pickup, setting the distance from the top of the pickup to the string to .093” +/- .010” (consistent set-up is essential). We then load and release the strum arm, capturing the result on a digital storage oscilloscope. We perform this process 5 times for a 3 pickup sample lot and average the results. This is repeated for every model we make.

      I'm happy to be able to share some of this data with you today. I appreciate you guys being cool and patient with us as we work to give you all the tools you could ever want to make the best selection.

      SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
      SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
      SH-2n Jazz Model 501
      SH-2b Jazz Model 571
      SH-3 Stag Mag 389
      SH-4 JB Model 737
      SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
      7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
      8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
      SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
      7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
      8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
      7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
      8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
      SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
      7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
      8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
      SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
      SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
      SH-8n Invader 491
      7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
      8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
      7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
      8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
      SH-8b Invader 813
      7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
      8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
      SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
      SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
      SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
      SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
      SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
      SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
      SH-10n Full Shred 709
      SH-10b Full Shred 724
      SH-11 Custom Custom 574
      PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
      PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
      PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
      PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
      PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
      SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
      SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
      SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
      SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
      SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
      SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
      SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
      Black Winter, HB Neck 744
      Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
      7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
      7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
      8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
      8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
      6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
      7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
      8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
      7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
      8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
      6Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
      7Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
      8Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
      7Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
      8Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
      6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
      7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
      8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
      7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
      8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
      Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
      TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
      TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
      TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
      TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
      TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
      TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
      TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
      TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
      TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
      TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
      TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
      TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
      TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
      Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
      Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
      Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
      Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
      APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
      APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
      APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
      APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
      LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
      LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
      LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
      LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
      AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
      AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
      AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
      AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
      AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
      AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
      AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
      AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
      AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
      AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
      AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
      AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
      AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
      AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
      AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
      AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
      AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
      AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
      AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
      SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
      SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
      SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
      SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
      SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
      SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
      SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
      SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
      Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

      Comment


      • #18
        I've never understood the desire for output values, for a lot of reasons. It depends on how hard you strum, why not modulate your strumming to suit the situations? How about raising and lower the pickups to taste? A given pickup will always produce less output in the bridge than if it were installed in the neck, so the numbers comparing neck and bridge would apples and oranges. A person can always use a light amount of compression to close of volume differences between pickups. When running into a dirty amp, the volume tends to be the same anyway, and the output just determine how hard the amp will clip at a given amount of gain.

        For the most part, the output could be inferred from the inductance and the magnet. We know the magnet type, if the pickup makers were to supply the inductance, you could just make an educated guess that would be just as accurate, if not more so, than some arbitrary milivoltage regime.

        Comment


        • #19
          ^^ Well,

          I guess the biggest problem is if the pickup isn't "hot enough" to give you sufficient distortion/gain. You could always use a "boost" pedal for this, but...

          ...also it's important to match the output between different pickups in the same guitar. To your liking, of course.

          my thoughts

          -E
          If somethings important- send a PM. I might be offline for long periods. Rock on!!!

          Comment


          • #20
            Funny that ALL the Nazgul's read 666.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mincer View Post
              The only time tests were done were about 5-6 years ago. I found this list from the thread I remember. I don't know how scientific this was but I think they really worked hard to provide consistent picking. At least it gives you a good idea when comparing different pickups. From what I remember, this was the only time this info was published. From the original post:

              Good afternoon forum friends, as many of you know we are deep in the midst of a website design (and yes for those of you rolling your eyes, it has been an extraordinarily long journey as we completely re-design, record and sample our many, many pickups). I wanted to give you guys a peak at some upcoming mV data. You all know the limitations of using DC resistance as an indicator of output, a much better indicator is mV. We've devised a precise and repeatable method for testing pickup output which we believe corresponds closely to actual playing. We start with a Telecaster that has an oversized cavity routed to allow easy pickup installation. The guitar is carefully tuned to standard tuning (consistent tuning is important). We add a custom machined, mechanical, spring loaded strum arm with a tempered, .004” thick spring steel pick. We install the pickup, setting the distance from the top of the pickup to the string to .093” +/- .010” (consistent set-up is essential). We then load and release the strum arm, capturing the result on a digital storage oscilloscope. We perform this process 5 times for a 3 pickup sample lot and average the results. This is repeated for every model we make.

              I'm happy to be able to share some of this data with you today. I appreciate you guys being cool and patient with us as we work to give you all the tools you could ever want to make the best selection.

              SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
              SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
              SH-2n Jazz Model 501
              SH-2b Jazz Model 571
              SH-3 Stag Mag 389
              SH-4 JB Model 737
              SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
              7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
              8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
              SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
              7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
              8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
              7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
              8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
              SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
              7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
              8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
              SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
              SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
              SH-8n Invader 491
              7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
              8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
              7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
              8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
              SH-8b Invader 813
              7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
              8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
              SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
              SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
              SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
              SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
              SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
              SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
              SH-10n Full Shred 709
              SH-10b Full Shred 724
              SH-11 Custom Custom 574
              PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
              PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
              PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
              PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
              PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
              SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
              SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
              SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
              SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
              SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
              SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
              SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
              Black Winter, HB Neck 744
              Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
              7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
              7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
              8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
              8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
              6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
              7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
              8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
              7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
              8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
              6Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
              7Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
              8Str Nazgūl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
              7Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
              8Str Nazgūl Brg, Pmt 666
              6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
              7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
              8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
              7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
              8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
              Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
              TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
              TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
              TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
              TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
              TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
              TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
              TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
              TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
              TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
              TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
              TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
              TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
              TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
              Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
              Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
              Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
              Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
              APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
              APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
              APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
              APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
              LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
              LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
              LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
              LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
              AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
              AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
              AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
              AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
              AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
              AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
              AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
              AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
              AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
              AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
              AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
              AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
              AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
              AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
              AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
              AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
              AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
              AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
              AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
              SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
              SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
              SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
              SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
              SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
              SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
              SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
              SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
              You should make this a sticky

              Comment


              • #22
                Those readings don't look very helpful if they somehow got the Full Shred neck to be almost as hot as a bridge humbucker. For effs sake it's just a vintage output neck hum same as the rest of them. They also got the Invader neck to read lower than the Jazz neck lol!! Completely useless info.
                Originally posted by NegativeEase
                I'd wager that Clint can best GuitarStv at Wat and WAAAT... but not Watts.

                I think in the International System of Units (SI) a "WAT" is defined as a derived unit of 1 Clint besmirchment per hour

                and WAAAT is defined as a derived unit of 1 Clint kilojoule of described Nirvana transgression per post.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
                  Those readings don't look very helpful if they somehow got the Full Shred neck to be almost as hot as a bridge humbucker. For effs sake it's just a vintage output neck hum same as the rest of them. They also got the Invader neck to read lower than the Jazz neck lol!! Completely useless info.
                  That's why Duncan doesn't give output specs. It's too dependent on too many variables.

                  People picture a pickup as having a measurable output just sitting there in its box or sitting in an unplugged, unplayed guitar.

                  But no output exists until a plucked steel string interacts with the magnetic field of the pickup and induces voltage.

                  People are asking for something that doesn't exist until YOU strum or pluck the strings, and then once there is an output it could be anything, because it's totally dependent on how hard you pluck, where the pickup is mounted on the guitar, how close to the strings the pickup is...on and on.
                  “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    thats true, but dimarzio has a method for it so it can be done. the dimarzio mv output numbers and great for comparing between other dimarzio models. each pup is tested in the same way, so while the actual output may be different in your guitar the number will tell you relatively what to expect.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jeremy View Post
                      thats true, but dimarzio has a method for it so it can be done. the dimarzio mv output numbers and great for comparing between other dimarzio models. each pup is tested in the same way, so while the actual output may be different in your guitar the number will tell you relatively what to expect.
                      Right.

                      So if a company wants to test their own pickups and give output readings, those readings might be accurate for their own pickups, but not relate to another company's readings because there's no standard for testing.

                      For Duncan's readings to be compared to Dimarzio's readings you'd need the same robot to test both company's pickups in exactly the same way.
                      Last edited by Lewguitar; 08-10-2020, 08:16 AM.
                      “Practice cures most tone issues” - John Suhr

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post
                        Funny that ALL the Nazgul's read 666.
                        ^^
                        it's a conspiracy
                        they build this test around this number!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lewguitar View Post

                          Right.

                          So if a company wants to test their own pickups and give output readings, those readings might be accurate for their own pickups, but not relate to another company's readings because there's no standard for testing.

                          For Duncan's readings to be compared to Dimarzio's readings you'd need the same robot to test both company's pickups in exactly the same way.
                          right which will never happen, but still its a useful number for comparing within a brand

                          Comment

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