HSS in Poplar bodies, best combos you tried?

[beaubrummels]

Have an HSS Jackson SL3X shred stick with Duncan Designed Distortion and Hot Rails. Sounds a little dark when clean, positions 2/4 are muddy, ugly and unclear. Positions 1-3-5 do pretty ok/kinda-good, solid, even, little bit of scream through very very high gain amp emulations like Engl/Bognor types (not in a position to try my actual amps in storage right now, but...). Seems to require very bright amps and bright amp settings to sound good. At best the Designed line is sounding meh-ok. Looking for sounding much better/good and satisfying, but donÂ’t need perfect/exact like the record.

>> What HSS combos have you tried in Poplar bodies that when clean sound like a Strat in the neck, sound like a heavy Les Paul Custom in the bridge, under gain can do singing leads in the neck, screaming leads for the bridge, bridge splits well for position 2, can do 70s heavy rock and venture into 80s early metal/shred stuff (e.g. Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Scorpions to VH, Ratt, Dokken, White Lion, Def Leppard). Not too much down tuning other than maybe D standard on occasion. Would like to be able to pickup this stick, do a few 80s tunes, maybe survive a couple 70’s rock tracks, then switch to my LP, Strats or Tele and continue 70’s styles of music without having to completely reset my rig. (Tall order, but based on my experience, I believe it i’s actually possible to get there. For example, in the 90s I had a Fender HM Strat with a DmZ Super 3 and Fender singles and a Gibson LP standard with 498/490 and covered this very same ground.)

(Yeah yeah maybe none of those bands used poplar axes with HSS, but I can load up any amp emulation to compensate, so I don'’t care about historical nit pick accuracy of what they actually used, but most important is just getting in the ball park of that collection of sounds.)

FWIW here are some options I have in the parts drawer (but can buy anything needed):
Full Shred, Screamin Demon, Perpetual Burn, Custom, Custom Custom, PATB-3, DDJ, StagMag, 78 Model, JB, P-Rail, WLH, Black Winter, 500T, 496R, DmZ Super 3, DmZ Super Distortion (open to using necks in the bridge)
Singles: DmZ Vintage 54 Pro, Injector Neck, Heavy Blues 2, Antiquity Texas Hot, Fender 68 Strat 6.8k (I don'€™t have a lot of singles; open to suggestions; stacks, rails, hex/z-coils, PATB, lace alumitones, whatever)

Thank you so much, gents. I know you'’ve got the knowledge. Lay it on me.

[Mincer]

I have a Music Man HH with a poplar body, and man, that is the most mid-heavy piece of wood ever. I tried a lot of pickups in it, until I realized that I have to listen to what it needs rather than what I think I want. I ended up with a Jazz and Custom 5, which have hardly any mids. It is much better now, although I might be hesitant to buy another poplar body.

[vinta9e]

until I realized that I have to listen to what it needs rather than what I think I want.

That's a worthy quote. Pickup tone is slave to string tone is slave to wood tone. Is the wood agnostic crowd already coming with pitchforks?

I ended up with a Jazz and Custom 5, which have hardly any mids. It is much better now, although I might be hesitant to buy another poplar body.

Cool but now you are unnecessarily prejudiced. The next piece might as well sound completely dissimilar.

Hey beau' why don't you try Super3 bridge, Injector neck and maybe the Vintage 54 or even the Fender single in between. That should give you thicc distorted bridge tones, the lean-and-inbetween character of a hum free stack in the neck and then still let you try your best chance at getting some sort of quack or cluck with a bright low output middle.

It might be a bit of a crapshoot with the Super3 being on the darker side, but maybe worth trying when you've already got these pickups. In my case the Super3 loaded HM Strat currently does require pushing up my amp's top end for the best results but YMMV. I'd consider getting a programmable EQ if touch-free equalizing between guitars somehow became important to me.

[Mincer]

I actually expect another poplar guitar to not sound the same, but I learned from my experience. I've played many Steve Morse model Music Mans which are poplar, and they don't have the issue I had.
So I just have to listen to the specific guitar. Blanket statements sometimes don't work.

[beaubrummels]

///

That's a worthy quote. Pickup tone is slave to string tone is slave to wood tone. Is the wood agnostic crowd already coming with pitchforks?


Cool but now you are unnecessarily prejudiced. The next piece might as well sound completely dissimilar.

Hey beau' why don't you try Super3 bridge, Injector neck and maybe the Vintage 54 or even the Fender single in between. That should give you thicc distorted bridge tones, the lean-and-inbetween character of a hum free stack in the neck and then still let you try your best chance at getting some sort of quack or cluck with a bright low output middle.

It might be a bit of a crapshoot with the Super3 being on the darker side, but maybe worth trying when you've already got these pickups. In my case the Super3 loaded HM Strat currently does require pushing up my amp's top end for the best results but YMMV. I'd consider getting a programmable EQ if touch-free equalizing between guitars somehow became important to me.

Thanks for the recommendation. I actually bought those recently for this purpose, good to have confirmation. I'm curious why conventional wisdom is to put the weakest single in the middle - I would have expected the bridge to overpower the middle single in the 2 position and the neck to be darker/boomy?

[beaubrummels]

I have a Music Man HH with a poplar body, and man, that is the most mid-heavy piece of wood ever. I tried a lot of pickups in it, until I realized that I have to listen to what it needs rather than what I think I want. I ended up with a Jazz and Custom 5, which have hardly any mids. It is much better now, although I might be hesitant to buy another poplar body.

The body has a zebrawood laminate on the top, but i don't know if that is making it even darker, or bringing back some snap from what it would be - I don't have another poplar comparison. My HM Strat was basswood, so the Super 3 was just fine in that and actually sounded Fender-single-like when split. Maybe this body is just darker overall and i need to use brighter EQ? On paper, the poplar was supposed to be closer to Alder, which is a normal Strat, so I thought I would have a more neutral starting place than the basswood version of this guitar.

I have several Customs (old and new) and several Jazz bridges (covered,uncovered) I can try. Also Pearlies old and new, which are very bright. I was hoping for pickups with some heat to do the shred stuff better. (Maybe the Demon or Full Shred?)

[Despair]

Especially if it has a floating vibrato bridge, I'd look at Parallel Axis. They're great for fixing congested-sounding guitars, and have great high end without being harsh or ice-picky.

I'd probably go for a PATB-1b given the range of music, but since you have the PATB-3 on hand, I'd give that a try. If you want higher output, and a slightly more C5-ish EQ curve, but with singing harmonics, PATB-1b is dead on.

Screamin' Demon could be worth a try, too, but is probably a bit low output. But should have a good bite and its A5 mids may work in a mid-heavy guitar.

Full Shred, 500T, Custom, and Black Winter are probably worth a try, too (I'd probably go in that order). Wood that is difficult with the usual suspects can often be made to shine, but it can be a bit of a search to find the pickup that minimizes the problems or even reveals some otherwise unnoticed strengths. Maybe rig up some alligator clips so you don't have to solder to swap pickups every time, until you find the combo you like?

I always try to nail the bridge pickup before messing with neck pickups, because my taste in those depends on what I'm balancing them against.

I've heard some glowing reviews of the PA-STK, and the smooth but present harmonics might work nicely if the guitar does need extended presence (rather than sounding dull or congested, not truly dark, due to a lower mid spike or something). And they tend to be good for thickening low end but smoothing out wrong lower mids. But I'd probably work through your collection first. Given the high gain, I'd probably look at noiseless first, Injectors or Heavy Blues? But you have a bunch of nice singles, so if you are comfortable with a noise gate, I'd work through those if the noiseless you have don't work.

[vinta9e]

Thanks for the recommendation. I actually bought those recently for this purpose, good to have confirmation. I'm curious why conventional wisdom is to put the weakest single in the middle - I would have expected the bridge to overpower the middle single in the 2 position and the neck to be darker/boomy?

In this config the lower output middle is supposed to give some sparkle to the 2 and 4 positions and possibly a usable clean tone by itself. There are two ways of combining singles with dual coil pickups - either you tend to pick hotter singles and/or moderate 'buckers so as to balance volume between positions or you embrace the difference because 'volume is gain' and enjoy how much the level of drive changes as you click through the switch positions.
The other reason is the neck pickup on 24 fretters does not sound and feel the same as with 22, so using a hotter pickup delivers some consolation+compensation.

I get way more excited when someone mentions the PATB1b than Dimarzios but I think you should try a Jackson with Dimarzios, it's a cool sound.

[Synapsys]

I went Full Shred Trembucker, Vintage Rails middle and Cool Rails neck on my Jackson DK2 (poplar body, 24 fret rosewwod fretboard on a quarter sawn maple neck).

Does blues to metal, and anything in between.

I have mine wired to a Freeway 10 position switch, single volume/ single tone 500k pots, and the previous volume knob closer to the bridge is now just a push/pull pot, switching the Cool Rails neck between series and parallel mode. It's now an extremely versatile guitar.

For the tones you're looking for, the pickups I mentioned are, to my ears, a perfect match.

[Demanic]

^^
This

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

[beaubrummels]

I went Full Shred Trembucker, Vintage Rails middle and Cool Rails neck on my Jackson DK2 (poplar body, 24 fret rosewwod fretboard on a quarter sawn maple neck).

Does blues to metal, and anything in between.

I have mine wired to a Freeway 10 position switch, single volume/ single tone 500k pots, and the previous volume know closer to the bridge is now just a push/pull pot, switching the Cool Rails neck between series and parallel mode. It's now an extremely versatile guitar.

For the tones you're looking for, the pickups I mentioned are, to my ears, a perfect match.

Thanks! I’ll have to pick up the rails (those two I don’t happen to have). When I do I’ll give this setup a try.

[Synapsys]

Hope it works well for you. Definitely will brighten up your axe.

You may try a different wiring than the one I have, which has the FS and the VR wired in parallel in position 2, and the VR and the CR also wired in position for 4, this with the Freeway switch in the "down" position. Think "hot modern Strat" tones in those positions.

With the switch in the "up" position it has the FS in seriies in position 1, the FS split to the bridge coil in position 2, the FS and the CR wired in paralllel in position 3, FS/VR/CR in series in position 4, and the VR/CR in series in position 5.

[beaubrummels]

Just a thought: what about forgoing the tone and having two 500k volumes, one for the bridge and one for both singles? (I'm still doing the other changes, just wondering if mixing the bridge level with the others would be more beneficial than having a tone control.)

[Mincer]

Only you can decide if you can live without tone knobs. Some people never touch them, but I tend to use mine a lot.

[Synapsys]

Same here.

Try it and see if it works out for you.