Fender wiring for pearly gates humbucker

[Blimft]

Hi all, I have another poser for you, this time for Pearly Gates Bridge. I have this PG+ that came out of Fender Tele Blackout. It’s going in the bridge of my Les Paul (straight up humbucker) BUT, the stock Fender wiring for this pickup goes ‘black n red tied off for hot signal & green white n braid tied off as ground.
I know the standard is black hot & red/white tied off etc, but before I take it apart and rewire it, what is the likely result of this Fender arrangement (hot red) if I just fitted it as is?
Can’t find any reference to this online, but I have seen the fender wiring diagram and it is just like this.
Any experience wiring this way round...thoughts appreciated
thanks

[ArtieToo]

Is the neck pup going to be a Duncan? Or something else? That could affect how you should wire it.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

My input would be the same feedback as what others gave for your similar question about your SD 59 Neck pickup here: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...-pickup-wiring

The Pearly Gates also seems to be wired In Parallel currently. And you should first try it wired In Series.

[Ace Flibble]

Okay, there's a lot going on here and some of what you've said needs detailed correcting.

The Fender Blackout Telecaster, which you've taken this pickup from, comes stock with a '59 wired in reverse phase and a 'normal' Pearly Gates Plus. (Which is not a Pearly Gates Bridge.)
The PG+ was first designed to be installed with Fender Texas Special single coils, and as such the winding direction and polarity are opposite to other Seymour Duncan pickups. It is made and wired so when it's split with the Fender middle RWRP single coil the two will be hum-cancelling and in regular phase.
If you wire it up 'the Fender way' (which is not the colour code you described; see below) but use another (non-Fender) Seymour Duncan pickup in the middle or neck position of a guitar then the combined pickup selections (i.e. bridge+neck or bridge+middle) will give an out-of-phase tone. You can correct this and get the standard combined tone by wiring one of the pickups in reverse phase or by flipping the magnet(s) in one of the pickups.
This is why the Blackout Tele has the '59 neck pickup wired in reverse. The PG+ is made to match Fender, which is the opposite phase of Seymour Duncan usually, so the '59 also had to be reversed in order to get both pickups back in-phase. Why they didn't just use a standard matched set of '59s, since the PG+ and '59 Bridge are very similar anyway, I don't know, but ultimately it is just a simple wiring swap.

In any case, whether you keep the pickups out-of-phase with each other or reverse one of them, the pickups on their own will sound normal. It's only the combined positions that are affected. I do suggest you give it a shot with the pickups out-of-phase, since it can be a useful sound and 'correcting' it later is easy enough if you don't like it. If you're not familiar with out-of-phase humbucker sounds, listen to some Peter Green (pre-1970 Fleetwood Mac). Jimmy Page, Brian May and Joe Perry also all use out-of-phase tones quite often.

All that said, I think you might have read your Fender wiring incorrectly.
This is the diagram for the Blackout Telecaster. As you can see, for the PG+ black & red are not tied off as you say. (In fact I'm not aware of any pickup manufacturer that uses black & red for series link, ever.) Green & black are tied off as the series link, only the white goes to ground, and red is used for the hot. This is 'undoing' the pickup being wound reverse to the neck (the coil starts are now creating the series link instead of the coil ends and the south is being used for the hot instead of the north). I'm not sure why they did this since I think it would only affect the sound if the pickups were split, which is a feature the Blackout Tele doesn't have anyway. The '59 is wired simply to reverse its phase, green to hot and black to ground.
So compared to normal SD pickups, this guitar has a RP neck and RWRP bridge, so on their own they're in-phase and if they were split (which, again, this guitar doesn't have) the split coils would be hum-cancelling.

If you look at the diagram for a Lone Star Strat you can see how the PG+ is wired up when paired with Fender's own RWRP single coil middle pickup. Since the pickup is made to match those pickups and there's no need to 'counter' regular SD pickup construction, it is wired in like any regular SD pickup: red & white for series link (in this case, on the 5-way to auto-split in position 2), black for hot, green goes to ground. No special wiring needed since the pickup is already in the correct direction and polarity to be hum-cancelling with the Fender RWRP pickup.


So to wire up the PG+ into a 2-humbucker guitar with a regular SD neck pickup, you can do one of three things:
1) If your guitar will have a coil split switch, copy the Blackout Tele's wiring exactly, reversing the direction of the PG+ and the polarity of the neck pickup, with the green & black wires of the PG+ and the white & red wires of the neck pickup going to your split switch. This gives you an in-phase middle sound with hum-cancelling split coils.
2) If your guitar will not have a coil split, reverse the polarity of one of the pickups by swapping the black and green wires. Red & white still join together for series operation. This will give you the standard in-phase middle tone.
3) Install both pickups using the standard Seymour Duncan code of black to hot, red & white for series, and green to ground. This will give you the uncommon but sometimes preferred out-of-phase middle tone.

If using a non-SD neck pickup, simply refer to this chart to see how different manufacturers' wire colours translate.


Lastly, do check your pickup will actually fit in the LP before you embark on wiring the whole thing up. Most PG+ pickups are made as trembuckers (I say "most"; all the ones I've ever owned or seen have been trembuckers, but I've heard unsubstantiated claims that some early ones were made as regular humbuckers) and don't quite fit into standard humbucker mounting rings, and the poles won't align with the string spacing of a standard LP tune-o-matic bridge. If the PG+ won't fit then you can use a '59 Bridge to get 99% the same sound instead, or a regular Pearly Gates Bridge and swap the A2 magnet for an A5. (Which will sound a little bit thinner than the PG+ but still in the same ballpark.)


edit: Now I've written all that (which I'll still keep since people often search these boards for info) I see now from Jack's link you're trying to pair this with a (regular?) SD '59 neck. In that case, and assuming you want totally standard tones from both pickups and the middle position, simply follow the wiring diagram for the Fender Blackout Telecaster that I linked above.

[Blimft]

Wow Ace Flibble, that’s what you call a response, thanks.
However, I didn’t say red/black was tied off, or at least I didn’t mean to...red is hot, black and green tied off, white/braid tied for ground.
i didn’t think it would harm, but I assumed it would be doing something different when connected to the original guitar wiring. I wondered if it would be out of phase or similar, but do I want that? Not sure.
but as you say I could pop it in & see.
Won’t that fender diagram give me PG out of phase or sommat? ie red hot, blk/grn tied off, wht to ground?
i thought I should just rewire both to standard SD protocol, black hot etc and that would give me both series wired, no switching.
thanks again

[Blimft]

Artietwo yes the neck pup is SD 59

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Ace Flibble

That is great info about how those pups are wired up in that Fender Tele. However, the OP wrote in his other thread (link to which is in my earlier reply) that these pickups "arrived" to him. Meaning, he acquired these 2nd hand. So while I assume you are accurate with your details above about how those pickups came wired stock in the Tele, if the OP is telling us that he received them wired differently, than the prior owner must have rewired those pickups prior to selling them to the OP. We need to advise the OP based on how he is telling us those pups are currently wired. Which seems to be that, the prior owner wired each pup in parallel. And the OP's end goal is to install each in a standard LP wiring format.

[ArtieToo]

Artietwo yes the neck pup is SD 59

Cool. A cheap meter would be invaluable for making sure we get this right. As Jack eluded to, someone may have messed with this first. Including, possibly doing a mag-flip. Do you own, or can borrow, a DMM?

[Blimft]

Artie Too: well, yes I thought that, but then something struck me at the time that it may be an OEM not for retail, so I asked the guy for more info. He seem open enough, said the pup came from 2005/6 Fender Blackout Telecaster (not Black top), so I had a reference point for research and it led me to the fender wiring diagram, (same as A Fibble posted) same wire arrangement coming from bridge, ie. red is hot, black and green tied off, white/braid tied for ground. so I don't think it's been messed with after being taken out.
I knew that it wasn't SD standard wiring, especially with the hot red; just wasn't sure what would happen if I installed as is, I figured whichever way, I would nee to split the wires and rewire as per SD in order to get series in Bridge & neck.

[Blimft]

Just finished installing Neck SD59, separated wires & rewired them for series, pickup surrounds fit ok, not as snug as previous ones with covers though. all working ok via tap test, gonna wait till they're both in to try 'em

[Blimft]

edit: Now I've written all that (which I'll still keep since people often search these boards for info) I see now from Jack's link you're trying to pair this with a (regular?) SD '59 neck. In that case, and assuming you want totally standard tones from both pickups and the middle position, simply follow the wiring diagram for the Fender Blackout Telecaster that I linked above.[/QUOTE]

Ace Fibble: can I just clarify your last point (above)?
if I want standard tones, which I do, I should just fit the PG’s as it’s wired now (hot red, blk/grn tied off, white grnd) which is how it’s shown in the Blackout diagram. Then this would suggest that the internals are wired differently for the Fender OEM, and this configuration is actually standard in polarity and phase?
so installing this pickup in this config, would be equivalent to SD supplied stock, yes?
many thanks for all your info btw.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Wow Ace Flibble, that’s what you call a response, thanks.
However, I didn’t say red/black was tied off, or at least I didn’t mean to...red is hot, black and green tied off, white/braid tied for ground.
i didn’t think it would harm, but I assumed it would be doing something different when connected to the original guitar wiring. I wondered if it would be out of phase or similar, but do I want that? Not sure.
but as you say I could pop it in & see.
Won’t that fender diagram give me PG out of phase or sommat? ie red hot, blk/grn tied off, wht to ground?
i thought I should just rewire both to standard SD protocol, black hot etc and that would give me both series wired, no switching.
thanks again

Blimft,

Thanks for clarifying how the pup is currently wired up. Your first post in this thread seemed to me to be saying that the Pearly Gates was wired with red and black tied together and going to hot, and green and black tied together and going to ground, which would be In Parallel.

[EDIT: It seems Ace Flibble is saying above that the PG+ is designed in reverse wind and reverse polarity from normal Duncans. So, the info. below would not apply to the PG+... just normal design Duncans.]

If you are not doing any coilsplitting in the guitar you are installing this into, you could install the pup as its currently wired (red as hot) and there shouldn't be any negative consequences, assuming the prior owner did not alter either pickup like flipping a magnet. That is why ArtieToo's suggestion to use a multimeter to verify each pickup's specs before installing them is a good idea.

The difference btw "red is hot and white is ground" wiring and " black is hot and green is ground" wiring is the order of which of the two coils receives hot input first. That does not have an impact on the phase. This change to "red is hot" is done so that when coilsplitting the pickup, you will the get the opposite coil left active in coilsplit mode vs "black is hot". See attached SD reference diagram. This is NOT the only way to influence which coil is active in coilsplit mode (the other is choosing whether to send the two tied together wires to hot or ground) but it is used when certain complicated wiring schemes don't allow the option of choosing whether to send the tied together wire pair to ground or hot.

[Blimft]

Jack:

What a pleb I am, I did say that about the wiring...that was how the bridge was wired and I researched that before I made my first thread, durrrrr.
the pearly is wired hot red, blk/grn tied, wht ground, very sorry to you and other posters.
So as it stands, is the wiring in this pup essentially the same as SD standard, just different colours? I wondered if SD had provided fender with fender colour code (which would be red hot)
that being the case, should I just install as is, with red as hot? or should I connect the wires as per SD colours?
I have a multimeter shaped paperweight but don’t know how to check the pickups.

many thanks

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Jack:

What a pleb I am, I did say that about the wiring...that was how the bridge was wired and I researched that before I made my first thread, durrrrr.
the pearly is wired hot red, blk/grn tied, wht ground, very sorry to you and other posters.
So as it stands, is the wiring in this pup essentially the same as SD standard, just different colours? I wondered if SD had provided fender with fender colour code (which would be red hot)
that being the case, should I just install as is, with red as hot? or should I connect the wires as per SD colours?
I have a multimeter shaped paperweight but don’t know how to check the pickups.

many thanks

Blimft,

Ok, thanks.

My last reply answered your questions about how your Pearly Gates is currently wired, why jit might be wired like that, and whether you can install it as-is (yes, you can).

Here is a link to a YouTube video that shows how to use a mutimeter to test a pickup:

https://youtu.be/7UfxQBhqen8

[Ace Flibble]

While measuring pickups can be useful, in this instance there really is no need; we already know how the PG+ and '59 should be wired for normal operation.

SHORT ANSWER:
If you follow the Blackout diagram for both the PG+ and '59 neck you'll get totally normal two-humbucker tones. That means full series humbucker in both positions, in-phase middle.
If you wire both pickups using the normal SD colour order—black hot, green ground, red&white series—then each pickup will work normally by itself but they'll be out-of-phase in the middle position. To correct this you simply swap the green & black wires for one of the pickups.


Same answer but longer for funsies:

the pearly is wired hot red, blk/grn tied, wht ground, very sorry to you and other posters.

That is the stock wiring for the Blackout Tele. The Blackout wiring gives you a RP 59 and a RWRP PG+. RP + RP = in-phase, which is what you want. Since you're not splitting the pickups, the PG+ also being RW doesn't matter and you can just ignore that part.

So as it stands, is the wiring in this pup essentially the same as SD standard, just different colours?

The PG+ is SD colour order but Fender construction internally.
The way the PG+ was first designed to be used, with Fender single coil pickups, it is installed with the normal SD colour order: red+white for series, black for hot, green for ground. If you check out the Lone Star HSS Strat diagram I linked above, you'll see that is how the pickup is wired.
To get the PG+ to match with a normal SD humbucker you need to reverse the phase of one of the pickups. This is done by swapping the green and black wires around but leaving red&white as the series link. It doesn't matter if it's the PG+ or 59 you do this to. In the Blackout guitar, Fender chose to do this with the neck pickup.
The reason the PG+ is using the red for hot in the Blackout, and green & black for series link, is because they're also reversing the direction of the pickup so it splits to a different coil which will be hum-cancelling with the split 59. This makes no difference if you are not splitting the pickups. Considering the Blackout doesn't have a coil split it is strange that Fender bothered to do this, but anyway, that's what they've done.

I wondered if SD had provided fender with fender colour code (which would be red hot)

Green is hot for Fender humbuckers, red is their ground. (As seen on a regular HSS Fender Strat diagram.)