Clapton’s “The Fool” SG pickups

BenPerkins

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Clapton’s “The Fool” SG pickups

Is there an SD equivalent of the pickups that were in Clapton’s SG - perhaps a Vintage Blues set?

Thank you
 
I'm leaning towards Antiquities, Seths or '59s, but we'll wait for the pros to come along and help you out.

I'm a child of the '80s, well past the good stuff like that.
 
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I would side with a Jazz set. Or Pearly Gates set. You'll need some brightness to get the scream he got out of them. The Woman Tone is still do-able with the tone control.
 
Is there an SD equivalent of the pickups that were in Clapton’s SG - perhaps a Vintage Blues set?

Thank you

AFAIK, there's no direct Duncan equivalent of the Gibson Early Patent Sticker PU's theoretically hosted by "The Fool" but +1 about the Jazz set mentioned above by beaubrummels: IMHO and IME, they are tonally close to the Pat. stick. HB's in a vintage SG that I've periodically here in maintenance...

EDIT - In order to keep it short, I've renounced to post above a bunch of thoughts about possible fine tuning tricks appliable to the mentioned pickups... pot resistance, cable stray capacitance, magnet gaussing are parms among others susceptible to make a big difference (and even to "revoice" a given set of pickups). But evoking these things wouldn't make sense in a first answer. I'll complete this post later, on request, if needed. :-)
 
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Clapton's SG was most likely a 1964 model.

Most likely the pickups were alnico 5 patent sticker humbuckers, not 50's pafs.

The magnets might have been 2 1/2" long alnico 5 magnets like most are today, or 2 3/8" short alnico 5 that Gibson used in the T-Tops.

The set would not have been calibrated for the neck and bridge positions and both pickups were likely wound more or less the same. Meaning that in terms of percieved volume the neck pickup would have seemed louder than the bridge pickup but only because when a pickup is mounted next to the bridge it produces a sound with less bass and more treble and less volume than a pickup mounted at the end of the neck..

Since his pickups were not calibrated you might consider using two 59B pickups. Two 59N pickups would be closer to what Clapton had but might sound too weak. Two 59B pickups would be slightly stronger than what Clapton had in his SG. I would probably just go for a set of calibrated 59 or Antiquity pickups.

The wonderful, smooth, singing tone Clapton got from his SG was because he is a GREAT guitarist with exquisite phrasing, touch and finger vibrato, and he played through the fabulous plexi Marshall amps of the 1960's turned all the way up. He did not use an overdrive pedal.

Unless you have his gear and can turn that Marshall up all the way, and you also have his technique, touch and knowledge of the blues, you're not going to get that tone.

The pickups I would look at are a stock neck and bridge set of Duncan 59's or Antiquitys.

I did alot of experimenting trying to duplicate Clapton's tone with Cream, and tried 2 3/8" roughcast A5 magnets and 2 1/2" roughcast A5 magnets.

I settled on roughcast 2 1/2" Alnico 2 magnets (stock in the Antiquitys) because ultimately, that sounded best to me and got me closest to the smooth, singing soloing tone Clapton got with Cream even though Alnico 2 is not what was in his pickups in that SG.

Clapton did leave the covers on, on that SG. but after I removed them to experiment with magnets I left them off of my Antiquitys.

I have 59's, Seth Lovers and Antiquitys in my five favorite PRS guitars, and stock RCA2 Antiquitys got me the best sound, followed by the 59's and then the Seth Lovers in the #3 position.

The 59's came with polished A5 and the Seth Lovers came with polished A2. Putting roughcast A2 in both sets resulted in a tone closer to the Antiquitys.

If you're on a budget, get a set of 59's and do some magnet swapping. Try roughcast A5 and A2 and see which you prefer.

If you can swing it, get a set of Antiquitys and call it done.
 
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+1 on using two identical pickups rather than a 'calibrated' set. It gets overlooked a lot but very few guitars prior to the 1970s had weaker neck pickups and hotter bridge pickups (as is now standard) and a big part of getting an authentic 50s or 60s tone is sticking the same pickup in both positions and just letting the natural differences of the positions cause the change in tone and response. Using different winds or magnets to 'compensate' for the positions is something you didn't really get people doing frequently until the 1970s.

Personally, I'd stick A4 or UOA5 magnets in two Pearly Gates Bridges and back the pickups quite far from the strings. That'll give you the slightly spicier single-note attack of the 60s pickups without compressing chords, and using the bridge wind will keep the output from dropping off entirely, as Lewguitar mentions with the 59s. (Which are very similar to a mag-swapped PG, just with very slightly softer treble.)
Bear in mind the mahogany that was being used by Gibson in the 50s and 60s was generally less dense than the mahogany that is commonly used now, and keeping a stronger pickup far from the strings can help reproduce some of that light, 'airy' sound better than weaker pickups at a normal height. Additionally, several past owners of the actual Fool have suggested that its pickups had been altered in some way and had a generally lighter tone than other mid-60s pickups, but not as light as the 50s PAFs. (Todd Rundgren in particular has said that he didn't mind selling the Fool on because a replica he had sounded fuller.) You could try A3 magnets to simply produce a weaker magnetic field in the first place, and A3s in either the PG or 59 bridge models would get you in that in-between-50s-and-60s spot.
Also note that the Fool most likely used 300k pots, not the now-standard 500k. That makes a big difference, especially with the tone control all the way down.

But yeah, the main thing is getting a 100w Marshall with two bass 4x12s and setting every control at absolute maximum. And if you are ever in a situation where you are able to do that (which is to say, if you own your own fully sound-proofed underground recording space and wear industrial-grade ear protection) then at that point you aren't going to notice the difference between any given PAF-ish pickups, or even between most solid body guitars.
 
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Clapton's tone with Cream is the tone both Eric Johnson and Eddie Van Halen have said they were going for. Both have used now vintage Marshall Plexi 100 watt stacks to achieve that tone. It's a huge part of the equation.

That sound is also my own favorite rock sound.

I saw Cream twice back in the day. I sat on the floor right in front of Clapton at the Grande Ballroom in 1967 and 1968. He was playing that SG and he was mind blowingly loud playing through two 100 watt Marshall stacks. His soloing tone was to die for. His rhythm tone when playing chords was a bit muddy. The second time I saw him I was also right in front of the stage and he was playing a single pickup Gibson Firebird 1 with the mini Firebird pickup. Through those Marshalls he got a very similar tone.

Clapton and Jeff Beck are my two favorite guitarists from that era and I saw them both close up.
 
I don't have the same expertise as Lew, but the closest SD I've heard to those early 60s patent number humbuckers was a '59 set with the magnets swapped for roughcast A5s.

I've yet to encounter an A2 humbucker that I liked in a Gibson scale guitar, so keep that bias in mind.
 
I don't have the same expertise as Lew, but the closest SD I've heard to those early 60s patent number humbuckers was a '59 set with the magnets swapped for roughcast A5s.

I've yet to encounter an A2 humbucker that I liked in a Gibson scale guitar, so keep that bias in mind.

RCA5 in 59's is a great sound! I tried mine with RCA5 and liked them a lot.

For the way I play and for the way I hear things through my gear I just found that I liked the sound and feel of my 59's with RCA2 even better than with RCA5, but that's just me.

59's with RCA5 sound great!
 
Also note that the Fool most likely used 300k pots, not the now-standard 500k. That makes a big difference, especially with the tone control all the way down..

Would a 500k volume and 250k tone get me in the ballpark? Using a 50’s wiring harness.

Great responses, everyone, BTW. Much appreciated.
 
Put a 1M resistor in series with a 500k pot. That'll give you 333k. If you don't like it later, you can just snip one of the legs of the resistor to remove it from the circuit.
 
It seems there's two threads going on in parallel:
  1. What (kind) of pickups/wiring were literally in the mid-60's SG Clapton played
  2. What Duncan pickups/wiring would enable me to sound like Claptons recorded SG/Cream sound; post the first album (which would have been a Les Paul, mostly I believe)
These questions have different answers. My first answer was answering #2, as that is exactly what I have in my current SG for exactly the same reason - I wanted Claptons sound as a base, knowing that I could reach the territory of others who copied him, like Alex Lifeson, Ed Van Halen, etc., as well as other musicians who just happened to use a relatively similar vintage SG, like Angus Young.

If I had answer question #1, I'd say Seths, or 59s, or Antiquities; or Custom Shop like Bonamassas, or Greenies (just flip the magnet back to keep in phase in the middle.)

What I don't know is if they were still using 50's wiring with the 330k pots in the mid-60s. Seems 50s wiring would correct the blah, murky, mud of 330k pots. For me, i always use 500k just because you can always roll treble off, but you can't add it back if the guitar isn't putting it out in the first place.
 
Too much focus on the pickups. Everything that came after the pickups, the music itself, and the player, make up the bulk of "that" tone.

All you need is a non-calibrated set of vintage-ish output pickups. I suggest a pair of Jazz necks or SNS necks to start.
 
It's interesting that Clapton walked away from that tone and never really revisited it. I think it was because so many copied it that it became a cliche.

Even when Cream reformed a few years back, Clapton used a Strat and some Fender amps.

He said Cream did briefly try some Marshalls but that it just didn't work in the modern era.

In a way, that's a sign of a true artist.

Joni Mitchell made a sharp right turn with her Mingus album and never returned to the more popular purely acoustic style she had before that album.

She referred to her to work on her earliest albums as being her "ingenue stage", even though her hard core fans couldn't get enough of that style.

I think of people like Miles, Joni and Clapton as being real artists, even if I did like what they did in their "ingenue days" better than their later work.

I want to hear Miles doing Round Midnight, Joni doing Both Sides Now and Clapton playing a Gibson through a Marshall getting those singing tones we're still trying to get over 50 years later.

But like Joni said: You wouldn't say to Van Gogh: "Paint A Starry Night again man!"
 
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this isnt like a big secret or anything. the pups are most likely short a5 magnet, 7.5-8k #42 pe early pat # pups. was gibson using anything but 500k on sg guitars in '62-'65?

if you want something very close, get a pair of 59n and put short rca5 magnets. if you want a cheap great sounding set, get a set of 59's

the tweed twins clapton uses arent a world different than an old marshall, just not as loud. though his strats sure arent a gibson. it was nice to hear him play some gibsons when he was doing the blues thing
 
I liked Clapton using his modern sound playing with Cream. I wouldn't want him to go back to Gibsons just because that was what he used.
 
I liked Clapton using his modern sound playing with Cream. I wouldn't want him to go back to Gibsons just because that was what he used.

I thought he lost his best sound as soon as he switched to a Strat with single coils.

I'm glad Eddie Van Halen didn't decide to switch to a Strat with single coils. I probably wouldn't like that either.

There are players who get a great sound out of a Strat. Bonnie Raitt, Ry Cooder, Eric Johnson, Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck...

But Clapton's best tones and best playing was on a Gibson with humbuckers. IMO of course.

I don't like his sound on a Strat very much.

Eddie Van Halen has said the same thing about Clapton.
 
I didn't like his 70s Lay Down Sally or Wonderful Tonight tones. I did like his later Journeyman & August ones. His mid booster was an improvement.
 
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