Mystery 4 wire pickup is out of phase

[conorsearl]

I'm working on a guitar with some old mystery pickups in them. The neck pickup is a 4 wire pickup, and the best I can tell, the black wire is the north coil start and the white is the finish, and on the south coil the green is start and red is finish. I've connected the red and white wires, the green and ground and used the black as my hot wire, and the neck pickup is sounding out of phase. I switched which wire was connected to the ground wire, and it still sounds out of phase. What have I missed?

ps. Wired this way the pickup measures about 8.5k which seems like half of what it should be.

[jeremy]

are the two coils out of phase with each other?

[conorsearl]

Are you asking what it sounds like, or something more technical...

The pickup sounds really thin and quacky...

[jeremy]

so you tested with a meter and found the black and white are one coil, and the red and green are the other, yes? each of those pairs gives you about 8.5k?

[conorsearl]

A follow up question, a 4 wire humbucker wired in series, does the finish of one coil go into the start of the second coil? Does the finish/start matter?

[conorsearl]

so you tested with a meter and found the black and white are one coil, and the red and green are the other, yes? each of those pairs gives you about 8.5k?

Yup

[ArtieToo]

A follow up question, a 4 wire humbucker wired in series, does the finish of one coil go into the start of the second coil? Does the finish/start matter?

Yes, it matters. A Duncan pup should go finish-to-finish. Do you own a meter?

[conorsearl]

So I tried something different, I connected what I thought was the finish of the north coil to the start of the south coil, and grounded the finish of the south coil, and used the start of the north coil as my hot wire. The quackiness is gone, but the pickup is super quiet. But perhaps this is a different conversation...

[conorsearl]

Never mind, my link had just come apart. Soldering it now and all should be good. Thanks!

[conorsearl]

Yes, it matters. A Duncan pup should go finish-to-finish. Do you own a meter?

I do own a meter.

[ArtieToo]

I do own a meter.

Great. I was going to suggest a simple test. Since they're somewhat unknown pups, use the ohms function to verify which wires go to each coil. (I think you've done that already.) Then connect the meter, but put it on it's lowest DC volts range. Or, auto-range. Bring a screwdriver up against the coil, then yank it away. You want a positive voltage as you approach the coil, and a negative spike when you yank it away. If you get that, then the red lead is the "positive" pup wire, and the other would be negative. If you get the opposite, the pup wires ae opposite of that. Do the same for the other coil, and then simply connect one's neg to the other's positive. That way, you've "normalized" the pickup to Duncan wiring colors.

Hope that made sense.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Great how-to video here that covers how to determine start and finish for each coil of a humbucker, amongst other things, using a multimeter.

https://youtu.be/7UfxQBhqen8

[Edit: one part this video demonstrates what Artie was describing above]

[ArtieToo]

Great how-to video here that covers how to determine start and finish for each coil of a humbucker, amongst other things, using a multimeter.

Nice find Jack. I was toying with the idea of making one. (A video.) Now I don't have to.

I am surprised, however, that he used a different meter for the voltage test. That's not necessary. Any digital meter will have a "minus" sign in the display to show a negative voltage. But still, a good video.

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Nice find Jack. I was toying with the idea of making one. (A video.) Now I don't have to.

I am surprised, however, that he used a different meter for the voltage test. That's not necessary. Any digital meter will have a "minus" sign in the display to show a negative voltage. But still, a good video.

Guess what? I just bought a "next grade higher" muktimeter a few months ago so i could have Capacitance measurement capability, and it does not display a minus sign when a negative voltage reading occurs.

[ArtieToo]

Guess what? I just bought a "next grade higher" muktimeter a few months ago so i could have Capacitance measurement capability, and it does not display a minus sign when a negative voltage reading occurs.

Really? That's odd. Even my cheapest "Harbor-Fright" meter does that.