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HH, inner coils are not hum canceling

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  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    Originally posted by Mincer View Post
    ...When the pickup is truly reverse wound/reverse polarity, you wire it normally (I think) ...
    Correct

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  • Mincer
    replied
    So, just flipping the magnet without being reverse wound, you have to change the colors to wire the pickup 'backwards', right? When the pickup is truly reverse wound/reverse polarity, you wire it normally (I think). This is where I get all flipped around.

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  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    Originally posted by Zheddar View Post
    Charvel (owned by Fender) often have their stock Duncan neck pickups with a flipped magnet when running 2 humbuckers and a 4 pole super switch (in recent builds), and usually designate that with naming conventions such as "SH-2n RP".
    Zheddar,

    What you describe about one of two seymour duncan pups having a mag flip but without a reverse wind, when they are featured as stock pups in some guitar manufacturer's model, might also explain why member RexRemus found one of the pups in his SD Alpha / Omega set to unexpected have the same setup. I was assisting him last year in debugging why he couldn't get inner coilsplits to be hum-canceling like in this thread and the multimeter measurents revealed the odd setup. With your input, we may now have an answer WHY. AS the Alpha /Omega set is similar to the Charvel SD pups in that they are featured as the stock pups on PRS Mark Holcomb signature model.

    Ref around Reply #87 from that thread:

    https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...s-series/page6

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  • grimm26
    replied
    Yep the neck pickup is still stock. The next time I change strings, I'll pull it and check if it says anything on the back about being reverse polarity.

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  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    Originally posted by Zheddar View Post
    Charvel (owned by Fender) often have their stock Duncan neck pickups with a flipped magnet when running 2 humbuckers and a 4 pole super switch (in recent builds), and usually designate that with naming conventions such as "SH-2n RP".
    Wow, thanks for the cool insight Zheddar.

    Ok, that could explain it. Assuming the SD Jazz pup that is currently in the Neck position of Grimm's Charvel came stock with that guitar.

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  • grimm26
    replied
    Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post

    That means euther the Pegasus or the Jazz has the magnet in an "already flipped" state.

    Do you have a compass so you could verify?

    this youtube video demos how to take that measurement w the compass. Btw, it also shows how to perform a lot of other worthwhile measurements on a pickup.

    https://youtu.be/7UfxQBhqen8
    I don't have a polarity tester, but using the Full Shred that I took out of the guitar, I can determine that the polarities of the coils of the bridge and neck are opposite (held the same way, the full shred attracts to the bridge pickup and repels the neck pickup). FYI, slugs are the inner coils.
    Last edited by grimm26; 01-17-2021, 03:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zheddar
    replied
    Charvel (owned by Fender) often have their stock Duncan neck pickups with a flipped magnet when running 2 humbuckers and a 4 pole super switch (in recent builds), and usually designate that with naming conventions such as "SH-2n RP".

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    Originally posted by grimm26 View Post

    Oh I see what I did. I was going off of a diagram I made for when I had it in an HSH ibanez where the middle single was reverse wound. I had W hot and R ground. Now what happened makes sense . I'll swap those tomorrow. Thanks!
    That means euther the Pegasus or the Jazz has the magnet in an "already flipped" state.

    Do you have a compass so you could verify?

    this youtube video demos how to take that measurement w the compass. Btw, it also shows how to perform a lot of other worthwhile measurements on a pickup.

    https://youtu.be/7UfxQBhqen8

    Leave a comment:


  • grimm26
    replied
    FYI l, swapping the R and W to match your diagram gave me hum cancelling split of neck outer coil and bridge inner coil.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    Originally posted by grimm26 View Post
    I just want hum cancelling.
    Ok, you cannot get hum-canceling, in-phase with 2 of the same coil type (i.e. slug or screw) without flipping the magnet in one pickup and wiring one pickup in reverse. If you are up for the work involved, let us know and we can advise how to do that.

    Otherwise, you can get hum-canceling by splitting to the outer coil in one of the two pickups, and you don't have to flip a magnet. You do need to wire that pickup in a certain way (which is not "in reverse"), and that is covered in the diagram i posted in Reply #7. Once you have done that, you have the additional option to rotate that pickup in its pickup mounting ring 180 dehress so that the outer coil is now located as the inner. Reasons you may not want to do that are if the pickup has a logo on it - or if it is a covered pickup, it has a design on it - that will now display upside down.

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  • grimm26
    replied
    I just want hum cancelling.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    Originally posted by grimm26 View Post

    Oh I see what I did. I was going off of a diagram I made for when I had it in an HSH ibanez where the middle single was reverse wound. I had W hot and R ground. Now what happened makes sense . I'll swap those tomorrow. Thanks!
    But if you only swap white and black on the Neck pickup, yes that will fix the current Out Of Phase problem, but you'll be back to where you originally started, where the two inner coilsplits were not hum-canceling.

    Could you clarify what is your current goal at this point? E.g. split to both inners and live w the 60 cycle hum? Or you still want inners AND hum-canceling? You want to try Neck outer and Bridge inner which will give you hum-canceling? Which of those you want, drives how we should be advising you.

    Leave a comment:


  • grimm26
    replied
    Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    If you didn't also flip the magnet in one of the pups, then the reversal of wires you describe above would lead to the two inner coils being out of phase. Which matches the volume problem you described. You should also find the tone thin and sqawky, right?

    And yes, the two splits would be connected in parallel. But that's normal.

    You expressed interest in Post 2 in splitting to the outer coil in the neck pickup so you could have hum-canceling. You could accomplish that with the diagram i posted in #7.
    Oh I see what I did. I was going off of a diagram I made for when I had it in an HSH ibanez where the middle single was reverse wound. I had W hot and R ground. Now what happened makes sense . I'll swap those tomorrow. Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jack_TriPpEr
    replied
    If you didn't also flip the magnet in one of the pups, then the reversal of wires you describe above would lead to the two inner coils being out of phase. Which matches the volume problem you described. You should also find the tone thin and sqawky, right?

    And yes, the two splits would be connected in parallel. But that's normal.

    You expressed interest in Reply #2 in splitting to the outer coil on the neck pickup so you could have hum-canceling. You could accomplish that with the diagram i posted in Reply #7.
    Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 01-16-2021, 09:18 PM.

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  • grimm26
    replied
    Well, I reversed the wiring on the neck pickup (white hot, etc) and I have the inner coils together but they must be parallel cuz they are way quieter than either pickup split by itself. I may just get a schaller megaswitch for it to get the versatility. I have one of those in another HH guitar and it is great.

    Also, swapping the Pegasus for the Full Shred makes me way happier. The Full Shred is apparently not my thing.

    Leave a comment:

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