Duncan distortion neck magnet swap in bridge position

[jeremy]

[Clint 55]

[Masta' C]

I HAVE calibrated sets of pickups made with different wire gauges and they clearly sound the same and are the same pickup. What you're suggesting is an insult to Seymour, that he can't voice 2 pickups alike if their wire gauges are different. That's just retarded.

You're a bit out of line, bro.

Yes, a winder shows admirable talent when they can take 2 different formulas and make them sound/perform similarly. However, that doesn't mean they are the "same" pickup.

"Underwound" and "overwound" refer to adding/removing turns of the SAME wire. Thus, the SH-6 is NOT an "overwound" version of the SH-6n, because they use different gauges of wire. If the SH-6n is 43 AWG, then it undeniably shares more physical DNA with the Custom, which also uses 43 AWG.

Your example of a "9K JB" doesn't make any sense at all. You can call it a "9K JB" in name, but that doesn't mean it is anything like the JB or shares any of the JB's DNA.

[Clint 55]

If the SH-6n is 43 AWG, then it undeniably shares more physical DNA with the Custom, which also uses 43 AWG.

False. That's circular reasoning. No explanation why the DDn and Custom which are advertised differently by Duncan, built differently, and sound differently are more related for the sole reason of using the same gauge wire than the Distortion set itself.

Associating all pickups by wire gauge isn't the only possibility. It's also possible to scale the same model using different wire as proven with my Fralin set. I'm sure Duncan could scale any of his pickups like that. If he built a Pearly Gates with 43 it wouldn't arbitrarily become the Jason Becker would it?

[Masta' C]

Circular reasoning? Do you hear yourself?

No one's arguing that you can't potentially "scale" different models, but the Distortion bridge and neck don't sound anything alike (when used in the bridge).

You're nuts, mang!

[Clint 55]

I'm nuts? You're saying The DDn is by definition a Custom derivative because of 1 parameter. Lol!

So how the DDn sounds in the bridge is subjective. I personally hear it as being the same pickup as the big brother bridge pickup with the mid spike and synthetic fuzz. Doesn't sound scooped to me like the Custom wind. But even if they do sound differently, why would the DDn be by definition a Custom derivative just because it has 43? Thousands of pickups use 43. Are they all the Custom? Are you retarded?

[Masta' C]

I'm nuts? You're saying The DDn is by definition a Custom derivative because of 1 parameter. Lol!

Are you retarded?

You're an idiot. Nothing more to say

[Mincer]

Please stop this, and get back to the OP.

[Masta' C]

How was the original Seymourizer advertised? I remember seeing it mentioned in ads, but I don't remember the description.

This ad from 1979, often used to highlight the SH-5 as an early VH model, shows what would eventually be called the SH-7, but simply states "series/parallel".

It's also labeled as the "Seymourizer II" in this ad and also on the 1981 price sheet. It's been suggested that the "II" designation referred to the change of the original "Seymourizer" to a neck-specific model, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Perhaps the "II" designation represented the move from single-conductor to 4-conductor wiring for the series/parallel option.

The 1988 catalog does show it as the "SH-7 Seymourizer II Neck" model, but gives no details about it at all.

On a side note, it's crazy to think the JB was nearly the same price in 1979 as it is today! Yay Seymour!

[Mincer]

Was 'The Mag' a Stag Mag or a Stag Mag without the staggered magnets?

[frankfalbo]

Maybe I can help. Let’s break it down into 2 different elements, the coils, and the overall tone of the pickup.

But before I begin, Clint, I see you making an argument from the perspective that Seymour designed the Distortion Neck as the calibrated neck version of the Distortion Bridge. This is not the origin story of the SH-6n. The pickup is the Seymourizer, originally something that could be used in the neck with a hot bridge pickup, like the DD, or used in the bridge. Only later did it get coopted as the Distortion Neck, and the Seymourizer name was retired.

For those of us who know this pickup to have been designed as a standalone, this is probably why we’re confused that you’re resisting the urge to consider it a coil wind that’s between a Custom and a Demon with 43AWG poly wire, and a DCR between the two.

Now back to the point. If we’re talking about the overall tone of a pickup, then yes, changing to a different wire gauge for the neck pickup, you can calibrate and voice a pickup to have similar complimentary characteristics to the bridge, and call them by the same name. The Full Shred and Invader sets are certainly like that.

But the folks in this thread are talking about just the coils, and using them as the platform for a magnet swap to create a different kind of bridge or neck pickup. For these people, it is more appropriate to think of the DDn coil like a Custom with less wire on it, or a Demon with more wire on it. But not like a Distortion with less wire on it, because that’s not what it is. Does that help?

[frankfalbo]

Also I believe the difference with the Seymourizer II was just the addition of the 4-conductor. Dimarzio sold their 4-conductor Super Distortion at the time (and many years after) as the “Dual Sound”. Same idea.

[Clint 55]

Yes, that helps. However since I've mag swapped both the DDn and Custom and don't view them to be alike at all tonally, I don't see the point in trying to make an objective statement that the DDn is a Custom wound to 13k instead of 14.2 because that's obviously false. You don't get broad eq differences between pickups if their wind formulas are identical. The DDn wind has a giant fizzy mid spike like its big brother bridge while the Custom wind has no mids at all.

[frankfalbo]

And without getting into too much detail, it’s really not false. A lot happens to the resonant peak characteristics of a pair of HB coils when you start adding wire. Like even a 59 Bridge sounds super different to me in the neck vs the neck model. And a 59 neck sounds thin and weak in the bridge. And those are within a few percentage points of one another.

[Clint 55]

Right, but all things equal, don't you usually gain thicker mids as you add wire? The DDn has less wire but more mids.