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"Remembering EVH" & Creation of the Axis Pickups

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  • #31
    I didn’t want to say anything about Larry dimarzio nice article about Edward but Here is the truth about “Edwards broken pickup” that pickup was giving to Jim Decola by Edward, Jim decola worked for Peavey he designed the Wolfgang with Edward Jim decola knew about the broken pickup before Steve blucher and Larry dimarzio, Jim decola still owns that broken pickup Edward gave him.I’ve spoken to Jim decola many times we have a mutual friend, the winding Jim used on the Peavey Wolfgang pickup were from Edwards “broken pickup”
    Last edited by pittbull; 02-16-2021, 10:08 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Masta' C View Post
      The high-resistance ("broken") JB thing is definitely interesting.

      It seems like a resistor between the coils *might* behave similarly to what Eddie experienced, assuming the source of resistance in Eddie's JB was occurring near the beginning of the second coil? But how much different that result is compared to simply going from 500K pots to 250K, for example, is something I would have to think through a bit more.

      Also, if the increased resistance was caused by the first coil being damaged, then perhaps we'd see a slightly different effect than if it were the second coil...or maybe not. Inductance would obviously remain the same, since the amount of wire on the coil isn't changing, but I'm guessing the amplitude of the resonant peak would drop.

      I guess the question becomes...could it audibly impact the response and/or resonant peak of just that one coil and not both? In a sense, it could be like going to a smaller wire gauge on that one coil, but not sure if the effect would be as significant.



      Interesting that the development of the Axis set led to well-known patents that fueled much of the DiMarzio lineup for the next 30 years!
      I'd wonder if the coil exhibiting a ultra high DCR was not behaving also as... a series capacitor.

      That's what otten happens IME with a string caught in the pickup: if the wire is broken and stays aligned, it behaves in a capacitive way (generally with a capacitance reading around 4nF while the DCR is either infinite, either ultra high).

      If it's the case, the effect should be repeatable with a series cap rather than with a simple resistor. Or at least with a 180k // to a 3.9nF cap.

      My two cents (the price of a cap). :-)

      Duncan user since the 80's...

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      • #33
        To illustrate my reasoning process, I post below some sims that I've just botched.

        Pic 1 shows the response of a 'Hot" HB with its first coil @180k.

        Pic 2 shows the same thing with the second coil @ 180k.

        Both show what happens if a damaged coil is purely resistive: it behaves like a limiting resistor, IOW like a lowered volume control...

        Pic 3 shows one of the coil @180k + series capacitance of 4nf. In this case and as expected, the series capacitance is "reEQing" the pickup without altering its output level.
        It scoops the mids because the series capacitance follows coil1. If series cap was after coil 2, it would cut the bass and bump the mids.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	HotHB180kcoil1.jpg Views:	0 Size:	40.0 KB ID:	6057727

        Click image for larger version  Name:	HotHB180kcoil2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	35.4 KB ID:	6057728

        Click image for larger version  Name:	HotHB180kcoil4nFcapParallel.jpg Views:	0 Size:	38.3 KB ID:	6057729

        Again, FWIW: a nerdy attempt to share. ;-P


        NOTE - I won't reveal the PU model used for these simulations in the name of intellectual property. Thx for your understanding. But I can tell that it mimics faithfully the behaviour of a "hot" HB + 4 wires cable.

        EDIT- Below is the response of a Duncan Custom with a broken capacitive "coil 2" (pink and black lines = responses of each coil), compared to the response of an intact Duncan Custom (green and white lines). This time, it's a real measurement and not a sim.
        The pickup was still working... as a high pass filter. :-)

        Click image for larger version  Name:	Duncan Custom intact VS capacitive broken coil2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	110.8 KB ID:	6057730
        Last edited by freefrog; 02-17-2021, 01:04 AM.
        Duncan user since the 80's...

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        • #34
          That's really cool! Thanks for sharing!

          Just to clarify, in the Custom graph, the green and black lines are the second coil of each pickup?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Masta' C View Post
            That's really cool! Thanks for sharing!

            Just to clarify, in the Custom graph, the green and black lines are the second coil of each pickup?
            Yes. :-)
            In my simulations, the responses of the two coils are merged together.
            In my measurements, the responses of the coils have been measured separately.
            Duncan user since the 80's...

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            • #36
              Would it be possible to show the response of the pickup (broken vs non-broken) as a whole, when wired in series?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Masta' C View Post
                Would it be possible to show the response of the pickup (broken vs non-broken) as a whole, when wired in series?
                Yes it would but it has not been done and the broken pickup has been repaired in the meantime. :-)

                Now, if we follow the upper lines for each pickup, it will draw something looking like the "merged" responses of my simulations...
                Duncan user since the 80's...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by superpete View Post
                  Dimarzio's website goes back and forth on what production model is closest to the Axis bridge (TZ, then AT1, now TZ again). I don't know what's closest spec/construction wise, but the AT-1 does a lot more of the things I like about the Axis bridge than the Tone Zone does. It's not identical, but it has a similar middy growl that i really like.
                  Yeah, They do go back and forth on it, actually at one point in the mid naughts had it as the Breed and Air Norton. I'm more inclined to believe the breed is actually the closest you can get regarding the raw materials and wind than the AT1 is, the AT1 is similar enough, but uses a slightly different wind, and a nickel plate which isn't as lossy. The breed seems to check all the boxes in these areas (approx symmetrical 7500 turns of 44awg each bobbin, AL5 magnet, and brass baseplate) I think if you were to drill out the north bobbin of the breed and stuff it with slug poles, and then swap the allen poles for fillisters in the south bobbin, you would have an axis, complete with the spray painted brass base plate. The issue though, is that most people are likely not going to risk trying this. I think if I found an extra one around for cheap, I would try this just for giggles.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by freefrog View Post

                    Yes it would but it has not been done and the broken pickup has been repaired in the meantime. :-)

                    Now, if we follow the upper lines for each pickup, it will draw something looking like the "merged" responses of my simulations...
                    Freefrog, for context, what was your testing methodology?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Joey Voltage View Post

                      Freefrog, for context, what was your testing methodology?
                      Hello,

                      In the pic above, an ultra low impedance air coil has been used to excite the pickup with a sweeping signal. Its response has been captured through a classic wiring harness + cable + 1M input.

                      it's the old method popularized by Helmuth Lemme, and that various people use around the World, with variables testing rigs.

                      That's all I can say on a public forum. :-)
                      Last edited by freefrog; 02-18-2021, 11:41 PM.
                      Duncan user since the 80's...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by superpete View Post

                        yeah i guess there's 2 ways to look at it...like, he went from Music Man guitars/Peavey amps, to Peavey all around, to starting the EVH line of guitars and 5150 line of amps through Fender. Was it a tireless pursuit of the perfect tone, or was he just looking for whoever was willing to make him the best deal, as he could make the gear work for him because he was Eddie?

                        i could see it both ways, as i think the amps got better as he went on, but the guitars were never as good as the EBMM EVH models.
                        I have a 2000 EBMM Axis, bought new in 2000. An improvement Peavey and Fender made on the guitars was graphite reinforced necks. My EBMM, with the oil finished, birdseye maple neck, is very susceptible to environmental changes, it needed a refret years ago as the neck "fishtailed" according to my repairman.

                        Aside from the graphite reinforcement, the EBMM is every bit as good as my PRS and better than the Peavey and Fender reiterations.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by freefrog View Post

                          Hello,

                          In the pic above, an ultra low impedance air coil has been used to excite the pickup with a sweeping signal. Its response has been captured through a classic wiring harness + cable + 1M input.

                          it's a well known method, popularized by Helmuth Lemme, and that various people use around the World, with variables testing rigs.

                          That's all I can say on a public forum. :-)
                          Ah okay, I know the method you are referring to. Part of me is always wondering if there is a better way of expressing this and capturing this on a spectrum since the harmonic complexity of the instrument/strings itself is an important factor, but it seems like there would also be too many factors influencing this as well. Although maybe thinking too hard about it, as far as what the pickup itself is doing I'm sure its more than enough.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Joey Voltage View Post

                            Ah okay, I know the method you are referring to. Part of me is always wondering if there is a better way of expressing this and capturing this on a spectrum since the harmonic complexity of the instrument/strings itself is an important factor, but it seems like there would also be too many factors influencing this as well. Although maybe thinking too hard about it, as far as what the pickup itself is doing I'm sure its more than enough.
                            FWIW, I agree with your perspective. Reason why my archives also contain experimental results involving vibrating strings, THD measurements, impulse response captures or... harmonic spectra, precisely (from H1 to H12 or H16 for the richest results).

                            Resonant peaks measured with a sweeping signal are just the simplest way to "picture" the basic character of pickups: in one single screenshot, they give an idea of inductance, stray capacitance, eddy currents, coil coupling etc. They are also quick and easy to do, and stable precisely because they don't reflect nuances. IOW, their interest is somehow in their limitations.

                            Now, they still show important things - like the essential EQing effect of a damaged coil above. :-)
                            Duncan user since the 80's...

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