I didn’t want to say anything about Larry dimarzio nice article about Edward but Here is the truth about “Edwards broken pickup” that pickup was giving to Jim Decola by Edward, Jim decola worked for Peavey he designed the Wolfgang with Edward Jim decola knew about the broken pickup before Steve blucher and Larry dimarzio, Jim decola still owns that broken pickup Edward gave him.I’ve spoken to Jim decola many times we have a mutual friend, the winding Jim used on the Peavey Wolfgang pickup were from Edwards “broken pickup”
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"Remembering EVH" & Creation of the Axis Pickups
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Originally posted by Masta' C View PostThe high-resistance ("broken") JB thing is definitely interesting.
It seems like a resistor between the coils *might* behave similarly to what Eddie experienced, assuming the source of resistance in Eddie's JB was occurring near the beginning of the second coil? But how much different that result is compared to simply going from 500K pots to 250K, for example, is something I would have to think through a bit more.
Also, if the increased resistance was caused by the first coil being damaged, then perhaps we'd see a slightly different effect than if it were the second coil...or maybe not. Inductance would obviously remain the same, since the amount of wire on the coil isn't changing, but I'm guessing the amplitude of the resonant peak would drop.
I guess the question becomes...could it audibly impact the response and/or resonant peak of just that one coil and not both? In a sense, it could be like going to a smaller wire gauge on that one coil, but not sure if the effect would be as significant.
Interesting that the development of the Axis set led to well-known patents that fueled much of the DiMarzio lineup for the next 30 years!
That's what otten happens IME with a string caught in the pickup: if the wire is broken and stays aligned, it behaves in a capacitive way (generally with a capacitance reading around 4nF while the DCR is either infinite, either ultra high).
If it's the case, the effect should be repeatable with a series cap rather than with a simple resistor. Or at least with a 180k // to a 3.9nF cap.
My two cents (the price of a cap). :-)
Duncan user since the 80's...
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To illustrate my reasoning process, I post below some sims that I've just botched.
Pic 1 shows the response of a 'Hot" HB with its first coil @180k.
Pic 2 shows the same thing with the second coil @ 180k.
Both show what happens if a damaged coil is purely resistive: it behaves like a limiting resistor, IOW like a lowered volume control...
Pic 3 shows one of the coil @180k + series capacitance of 4nf. In this case and as expected, the series capacitance is "reEQing" the pickup without altering its output level.
It scoops the mids because the series capacitance follows coil1. If series cap was after coil 2, it would cut the bass and bump the mids.
Again, FWIW: a nerdy attempt to share. ;-P
NOTE - I won't reveal the PU model used for these simulations in the name of intellectual property. Thx for your understanding. But I can tell that it mimics faithfully the behaviour of a "hot" HB + 4 wires cable.
EDIT- Below is the response of a Duncan Custom with a broken capacitive "coil 2" (pink and black lines = responses of each coil), compared to the response of an intact Duncan Custom (green and white lines). This time, it's a real measurement and not a sim.
The pickup was still working... as a high pass filter. :-)
Last edited by freefrog; 02-17-2021, 01:04 AM.Duncan user since the 80's...
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Originally posted by Masta' C View PostThat's really cool! Thanks for sharing!
Just to clarify, in the Custom graph, the green and black lines are the second coil of each pickup?
In my simulations, the responses of the two coils are merged together.
In my measurements, the responses of the coils have been measured separately.Duncan user since the 80's...
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Originally posted by Masta' C View PostWould it be possible to show the response of the pickup (broken vs non-broken) as a whole, when wired in series?
Now, if we follow the upper lines for each pickup, it will draw something looking like the "merged" responses of my simulations...Duncan user since the 80's...
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Originally posted by superpete View PostDimarzio's website goes back and forth on what production model is closest to the Axis bridge (TZ, then AT1, now TZ again). I don't know what's closest spec/construction wise, but the AT-1 does a lot more of the things I like about the Axis bridge than the Tone Zone does. It's not identical, but it has a similar middy growl that i really like.
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Originally posted by freefrog View Post
Yes it would but it has not been done and the broken pickup has been repaired in the meantime. :-)
Now, if we follow the upper lines for each pickup, it will draw something looking like the "merged" responses of my simulations...
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Originally posted by Joey Voltage View Post
Freefrog, for context, what was your testing methodology?
In the pic above, an ultra low impedance air coil has been used to excite the pickup with a sweeping signal. Its response has been captured through a classic wiring harness + cable + 1M input.
it's the old method popularized by Helmuth Lemme, and that various people use around the World, with variables testing rigs.
That's all I can say on a public forum. :-)Last edited by freefrog; 02-18-2021, 11:41 PM.Duncan user since the 80's...
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Originally posted by superpete View Post
yeah i guess there's 2 ways to look at it...like, he went from Music Man guitars/Peavey amps, to Peavey all around, to starting the EVH line of guitars and 5150 line of amps through Fender. Was it a tireless pursuit of the perfect tone, or was he just looking for whoever was willing to make him the best deal, as he could make the gear work for him because he was Eddie?
i could see it both ways, as i think the amps got better as he went on, but the guitars were never as good as the EBMM EVH models.
Aside from the graphite reinforcement, the EBMM is every bit as good as my PRS and better than the Peavey and Fender reiterations.
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Originally posted by freefrog View Post
Hello,
In the pic above, an ultra low impedance air coil has been used to excite the pickup with a sweeping signal. Its response has been captured through a classic wiring harness + cable + 1M input.
it's a well known method, popularized by Helmuth Lemme, and that various people use around the World, with variables testing rigs.
That's all I can say on a public forum. :-)
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Originally posted by Joey Voltage View Post
Ah okay, I know the method you are referring to. Part of me is always wondering if there is a better way of expressing this and capturing this on a spectrum since the harmonic complexity of the instrument/strings itself is an important factor, but it seems like there would also be too many factors influencing this as well. Although maybe thinking too hard about it, as far as what the pickup itself is doing I'm sure its more than enough.
Resonant peaks measured with a sweeping signal are just the simplest way to "picture" the basic character of pickups: in one single screenshot, they give an idea of inductance, stray capacitance, eddy currents, coil coupling etc. They are also quick and easy to do, and stable precisely because they don't reflect nuances. IOW, their interest is somehow in their limitations.
Now, they still show important things - like the essential EQing effect of a damaged coil above. :-)Duncan user since the 80's...
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I just watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAWi1nfuVWc&t=1021s about the EBMM Axis pickups and read some threads on other forums about this . Maybe the Axis bridge pup is 2 of one of the coils of the Tone Zone possibly partially aired . The Tone Zone has mismatched coils and the Axis has matched coils. As stated in the article Eddie had a hard time choosing between the final 2 pups and, the one he didn't pick became the Tone Zone
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From what I can tell the axis pickups are just 2 of the 8.65k coils from a tone zone. Probably with out the extra slugs between the poles. The neck looks to be 2 of same 7.35k coils from the air Norton.
I don’t think these were unique pickups in terms of design, dimarzio just built them as oem for several brands. I suspect the hamer guitars and the Parker fly got versions of the axis pickups as well, though I’m not sure which versions were which.
I’d be interested in trying to build a set by matching the coils, but I don’t have an axis set to compare to. I do have some of the Parker pickups though, if I could figure out which were which.
It’s to bad they aren’t more widely used, the pickups Ernie ball is using that are built in house are terrible.
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