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Confused By Fishman Fluence Diagrams

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  • showerstm
    replied
    Thanks everyone,

    Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
    I think the SCO (Single Coil Out) takes the output of one of the coils, before the preamp, to be used with the Single Width (Strat style) pickup. Those sets have a single preamp and feed the coils of the passive pickups into that single preamp on the one pickup and that serves as the output. (You wouldn’t use this by itself, you’d use it with the Single Width product)
    That clears up a question I had about the Tosin Abasi signature set. To put both pickups on in single coil mode it selects voice 3 for the bridge but not the neck, and connects SCO to NCO (the abasi set has different pads from the Reyes/Classic). I guess it's taking the pre-preamp output from the neck's north coil and feeding into the bridge pickup's preamp in parallel with the bridge's south coil output.

    ​​​
    Originally posted by frankfalbo View Post
    There is generally signal on the pads that select the coils, and it is similar to shorting out the south coil vs shorting the north coil. But on some sets we have to be very deliberate about which things are wired standard, which things are available as options, and which things we use in a very customized way, to achieve sounds and combinations that simply don’t exist elsewhere.
    Thanks for the info. It makes sense to me that different models/iterations would have different output options to support different sounds/combinations I was just surprised that the explanations of the controls didn't give enough detail to explain how/why the included diagrams worked. Based on the answers here though I realize that at least some of the problem was that I was trying to think of them as if they were passive pickups.
    Last edited by showerstm; 02-23-2021, 11:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PFDarkside
    replied
    Originally posted by frankfalbo View Post
    There is generally signal on the pads that select the coils, and it is similar to shorting out the south coil vs shorting the north coil. But on some sets we have to be very deliberate about which things are wired standard, which things are available as options, and which things we use in a very customized way, to achieve sounds and combinations that simply don’t exist elsewhere.

    In a way, it’s like saying why can’t all cars just use the same plug & play transmissions, so there is a standard?

    So what we try to do is make things stupid simple like “just put the orange wire here, and the yellow wire there” but then also give some deeper information for best practices, like if you do run flying leads from some of those options, you know to shield them, or to use short wire, and/or run them along the side wall of a shielded cavity.
    Thank you as always Frank! If anything I posted is inaccurate I’ll remove to avoid confusion.

    It’s interesting that there is a group of Fluence (Single Width,
    Classic, Modern) that needs to be as flexible as possible to provide the end user with a wide array of options. Then the artist signature sets need to be relatively easy to install per the artist’s specs, which may be different than a typical installation.

    I’ll be doing an install of Classics here in a few weeks and of course I am intending to use as many of the options as possible. The HF Tilt is really the only question, it seems very few use it, and a lot of players like that clarity and detail that the stock configuration provides.

    Leave a comment:


  • frankfalbo
    replied
    There is generally signal on the pads that select the coils, and it is similar to shorting out the south coil vs shorting the north coil. But on some sets we have to be very deliberate about which things are wired standard, which things are available as options, and which things we use in a very customized way, to achieve sounds and combinations that simply don’t exist elsewhere.

    In a way, it’s like saying why can’t all cars just use the same plug & play transmissions, so there is a standard?

    So what we try to do is make things stupid simple like “just put the orange wire here, and the yellow wire there” but then also give some deeper information for best practices, like if you do run flying leads from some of those options, you know to shield them, or to use short wire, and/or run them along the side wall of a shielded cavity.

    Leave a comment:


  • PFDarkside
    replied
    I love the concepts behind the Fluence pickups. I’ll start by saying my only knowledge is poring over the diagrams for a couple of years.

    That being said, I do agree that the inconsistencies in the application of each pickup are a little frustrating. You’d think they would all follow the same standard, for connections, but I understand they are reinventing the way pickups work/are connected and I’m glad they are employing continual improvement. The fact that the classics are on V4/V5 and they’ve added coil select and voice 3 is very cool.

    In terms of actual operation/functionality, here’s what I’ve surmised:

    The Voice Select is probably just active low digital inputs into the circuit board, this would make sense. Floating is “standard” state, grounding activates the pin and therefore that voice.

    HF Tilt seems to be a preset low pass filter network that is floating in standard state, then when grounded it’s allowed to bleed high treble to ground. (Someone asked Frank Falbo if you can connect it to a pot to get variations on it, I don’t recall the answer)

    I think the SCO (Single Coil Out) takes the output of one of the coils, before the preamp, to be used with the Single Width (Strat style) pickup. Those sets have a single preamp and feed the coils of the passive pickups into that single preamp on the one pickup and that serves as the output. (You wouldn’t use this by itself, you’d use it with the Single Width product)

    The Coil Select pads are a bit of a mystery to me as well. It seems as the standard usage is to “set and forget” with solder bridges, but it’s clear you can use it with flying leads to select one coil or the other. I’m not sure if there is signal on these pads or not. I see your point of view that it’s used very much like the Series Link on a standard Humbucker, I wonder if it is or just a switched signal line?

    If Frank ends up in this thread, I’m curious how those Coil Select pads work and if there is signal on them.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB_From_Hell
    replied
    This is why I’m glad my Fluence-loaded guitar was wired by the guy who helped design and voice them

    It also just so happens that guy is very accessible, semi-regular on here, and can almost certainly help you understand whatever you need to know about the wiring.

    Leave a comment:


  • showerstm
    started a topic Confused By Fishman Fluence Diagrams

    Confused By Fishman Fluence Diagrams

    I've been looking at fishman fluence pickups for my 8 string and I find the diagrams they provide very confusing. Specifically; after reading the "connection functions" document (https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u..._Functions.pdf), looking at the diagrams/descriptions for the Javier Reyes set (https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...luence-WEB.pdf), and factoring in my understanding of how to wire regular humbuckers, I just don't understand the pins/pads on the pickups actually do. I'll probably end up using one of the given schematics anyway so I don't really NEED to understand, but it's kind of irritating that I'm not able to anyway. I'm wondering if anyone else has the same experience, or has been better able to understand the docs/diagrams.

    As an example, the Javier Reyes set have the 3-pad "Single Coil Mode Select" where you connect the middle pad to either side to select which coil is on when using single coil mode. In the "Artist Preferred Wiring" diagram the descriptions say the neck pickup is in single coil mode with the inner (bridge) coil in position 2, and single coil mode with the outer (neck) coil in position 4. Looking at the diagram, in position 4 the wiring coming from the middle pad is connected to the neck-side pad which makes sense, but in position 2 the middle pad is connected to ground instead of to the bridge side pad. Beyond that, the middle pad is also connected to ground in positions 1 and 3, and to the neck side pad in position 5 when single coil mode isn't even active. Given that the default is to use a solder bridge it's obviously okay for it be connected when not using single coil mode, but why make the extra connections?

    Thinking about the way regular humbuckers are wired I start to assume that the 3 pads correspond to pickup wires where the middle pad is the series connection between the 2 coils, the bridge side pad is the other wire of the neck coil, and the neck side pad is the other wire of the bridge coil. This SEEMS to fit with the description of how the pads work; assuming the neck coil's start wire is grounded (bridge side pad), the neck finish and bridge finish are connected (middle pad), and the bridge start is hot (neck side pad) then connecting the middle pad to the bridge side pad would ground both ends of the neck coil and turn the bridge coil on. Similarly, connecting the middle pad to the neck side pad would make both ends of the bridge coil common to hot and turn the neck coil on. These assumptions would also explain why grounding the middle pad works in the "Artist Preferred Wiring" diagram.

    If this is true though, why not label the pads accordingly? IIRC there actually were fluence pickups that used 2 pads called "SC" and "H" and you selected one coil or the other by either grounding "SC" or connecting it to "H", which makes it seem reasonable to assume that the 3 pads are just those 2 with an extra ground pad for convenience, but given that that would be useful information, the fact that they don't tell you that makes me question whether that's actually how it works.

    Another strange thing in the docs is that they tell you explicitly that the HFT pad carries the audio signal, and that the "Voice 2 Select" pin does not, but then they don't tell you whether or not the other pins/pads do (with the exception of SCO, which has "output" right in the name).

    Finally, there is a note that says "these instructions are not comprehensive. A skilled electronics technician can simply interpret this overview to create a wide range of custom wiring options." which makes me think they DO expect people to make these kinds of assumptions; so maybe I'm just not sufficiently "skilled" to be confident in making them?

    Sorry for the some what unfocused question, just looking for some discussion really.

    Thanks
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