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Is this guy right about finding start/finish wire?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rmackowsky View Post
    I have watched that video several times, I used it to determine the wiring for my pickups, which proved the wiring diagram is wrong (othes have done the same). However, I don't believe there is anything in the video that shows how to determine start/finish wire for each coil, or winding direction for that matter. Again, if start/finish isn't required for parallel wiring, then I'm good to go, but my understanding is that it is necessary. I am tempted to buy one pickup just to take it completely apart to look at the wiring. Easier than soldering it all together and having to take it apart again to reverse the wires if it's wrong.I did remove the coil tape to take a look, but the whole thing is wrapped in copper tape, and I'm not taking that off.
    The 2nd video doesn't identify start & finish. That's a good thing, because it isn't necessary for guitar wiring. It's only necessary if you're going to rewind a broken coil on a bad humbucker. But if you're a winder, you'll know what to do anyway.

    The 1st video posted, (Guns and Guitars), is just wrong. He isn't identifying start and finish. There is NO test, (volts, ohms, magnetic polarity, etc.), that can determine that. And there's no need to determine that, as I just said. Consider this Duncan wiring diagram:

    Click image for larger version

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    If I did his "screwdriver" test, I'd get a positive for the black wire and a positive for the red wire. One is a start, and one is a finish. If I flip the magnet, I'll get a positive for the white wire and a positive for the green wire. Again, a start and a finish. You only need to know positive vs negative to wire a pickup properly. Start and finish are irrelevant.

    I suppose I should make my own video.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post

      The 2nd video doesn't identify start & finish. That's a good thing, because it isn't necessary for guitar wiring. It's only necessary if you're going to rewind a broken coil on a bad humbucker. But if you're a winder, you'll know what to do anyway.

      The 1st video posted, (Guns and Guitars), is just wrong. He isn't identifying start and finish. There is NO test, (volts, ohms, magnetic polarity, etc.), that can determine that. And there's no need to determine that, as I just said. Consider this Duncan wiring diagram:

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Duncan_colors-01.png
Views:	114
Size:	57.3 KB
ID:	6074405
      If I did his "screwdriver" test, I'd get a positive for the black wire and a positive for the red wire. One is a start, and one is a finish. If I flip the magnet, I'll get a positive for the white wire and a positive for the green wire. Again, a start and a finish. You only need to know positive vs negative to wire a pickup properly. Start and finish are irrelevant.

      I suppose I should make my own video.
      Awesome - thank you. So, if I know + and - for each coil, as well as magnetic polarity (north/south), but don't know the start/finish, can I wire in parallel?

      This is what I know about the Wilkinson M series hotrails using the MM:

      North Pole: Black +
      White -
      South Pole: Red +
      Yellow -

      They come wired in series with red and white joined. How would I wire this in parallel? I want to use a DPDT pot to switch between parallel and series.


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      • #18
        Black and red will be your "hot" output, and white and yellow will be your ground.

        Fixed . . . for Wilkinson. The bottom of the push-pull is the same as a DPDT.

        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by ArtieToo; 04-16-2021, 08:18 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post
          Black and red will be your "hot" output, and white and yellow will be your ground.
          How would that wire up to a DPDT for series/parallel switch? I know this is starting to converge with the other thread (https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...ns#post6074408), just need to know the wiring from the graphic in the other thread as it pertains to my wire colors.

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          • #20
            I probably uploaded that pic just as you were reading. Just ignore the "pot" part of that pic. The switch part is identical to a DPDT switch.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post

              If I flip the magnet, I'll get a positive for the white wire and a positive for the green wire. Again, a start and a finish.
              Trying to wrap my head around why the meter reacts that way to a magnet flip. This seems to infer that a meter's volt test functionality is somehow keyed to North polarity showing up as positive charge, and South as negative charge? How is that possible - wouldn't the meter have to contain a magnetic polarity detector within it to do this? I didn't think meters had one internally?

              Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post
              You only need to know positive vs negative to wire a pickup properly. Start and finish are irrelevant.
              Ok, yes, I never put 2 and 2 together on this, but yes, great insight! I've been mentally equating "+" and "-" as interchangeable with Start and Finish, but your example of how Duncan's two "+" wires (Black and Red) are not both a Start nor both a Finish. Duuhhhh! Haha. Luckily i've ended up "operating" the correct way in how I have actually wired up pups and designed diagrams - and the only error was my understanding of this particular point.


              Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                Trying to wrap my head around why the meter reacts that way to a magnet flip. This seems to infer that a meter's volt test functionality is somehow keyed to North polarity showing up as positive charge, and South as negative charge? How is that possible - wouldn't the meter have to contain a magnetic polarity detector within it to do this? I didn't think meters had one internally?
                Hey Jack. The three things that affect a pickups output polarity are: coil direction wind, (CW or CCW), magnet direction, and finally, just the way you connect its two output wires. (Talking singles here for simplicity.) So, obviously, if I flip the wires, I reverse it's polarity. If I flip it's magnet, same thing. If the manufacturer winds the opposite way, reverse again. Do any two, and you're back where you started. Do 1 or 3, and it's reverse polarity. So a Strat middle pup is reverse wound/reverse magnet polarity. They did two. NOT out-of-phase. That throws people, for some reason. I'm surprised by how many folks think the middle Strat pup is reverse polarity.

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                • #23
                  Thanks Artie,

                  I guess because I've not yet had to flip a magnet - i.e. i've been able to get away with just rotating the pup and rewiring it so i got split inner coils that were hum-canceling - i've never seen how a meter reacts pre- and post- mag flip. I always assumed the mag polarity was its own thing and would not "show up" on a meter. Thanks once again for taking the time to explain. Cheers.
                  Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

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