Cool Rails verses the LIL 59 in neck pickups , are they the same ?

[JB6464]

Looking at single coil size neck humbuckers for a future Stratocaster build and noticed that these two pups are almost identical .
The LIL 59 and Cool Rails both have the same DCR output of 9.8k and both use ceramic magnets , the only difference I see in the EQ chart is that the LIL 59 has a puss hair more of top end .
But unless they are somehow completely wound differently , visually the only difference is the LIL 59 has double rows of micro size screws and the Cool Rails uses blades .
Could it be possible that they are the same pickup but with different setups of Screws or Rails to make them sound different ?

[ArtieToo]

Could it be possible that they are the same pickup but with different setups of Screws or Rails to make them sound different ?

Anything is possible. The only thing I can add is that Cool Rails are sweet. Possibly, my favorite Duncan Strat-sized pups. But wait for other opinions.

[Clint 55]

They sound completely different for whatever reason. It could be mostly the poles but I would assume that the winds are different also.

[Mincer]

They are not the same. And I wouldn't trust the EQ graph. The Little 59 has way more mids, the Cool Rails is more scooped. To me, the Coo Rails is closer to the Jazz, while the Little 59 is closer to the Alnico II Pro.

[Teleplayer]

You could be right about them having the same wind. The difference between blades and screws can be quite big. The presence of Screws close the a vibrating string cause more 'eddy-current' loss, so it takes away from the top-end brightness. Inside the coils of the lil 59, it also has a steel core where the screws are mounted. You can search for "lil 59 analysis and review" and see the photos (they are not mine).

When I measured my Coolrails I got a large value for inductance. My measurement was 6.9H for the Coolrails - Surprisingly its more than the figure of around 5.7H I have seen quoted for the lil59.

[Teleplayer]

Is there alcohol in 7-Up? Yup. There's alcohol in all plant based drinks. Will it get you drunk? Nope. Not even if you drink a thousand gallons.

Eddy currents are not now, or they have ever been, a factor in guitar pickup tone. They matter ONLY when you want to design a power transformer for Niagara Falls.

Eddy currents loss is known to increase with frequency, so definitely a factor in magnetics used for audio. Not only power transformers!

[Teleplayer]

I am talking about tone, not output. It can explain why pickups loose clarity as the height is adjusted very close to the strings. I understand it is the eddy-current loss that causes the fuller sound as the pickup is brought very close to the string. If there is something different happening, I'd like to know your suggested alternative reason for this.

[Clint 55]

[ArtieToo]

There's a reason why Cool Rails are called "Cool." They sound amazing. One of my favorite Duncan pups.

[Mincer]

Yeah, the tone of those 2 pickups is pretty different.

[DavidRavenMoon]

A simple way to demonstrate eddy current loss is put a metal cover on a pickup. Hear the difference? The resonant peak is flatter and a little lower.

If you look at the DiMarzio Model One bass pickup they have a thin brass sheet on top of the coils to smooth the high end. This uses eddy currents.

And the H cutout on Filter’Trons is to reduce eddy currents. It’s mentioned in the patent.

Another factor between the to pickups is the inductance is probably different due to the pole pieces.

The Cool Rail neck is 9.4K. Usually wired in parallel. The Little 59 is 9.8k, usually wired in series. It’s a darker sounding pickup.


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[ArtieToo]

First of all, let me apologize for my eddy current rant. I don't even know why I have such a bug up my ass on this subject.

A simple way to demonstrate eddy current loss is put a metal cover on a pickup. Hear the difference?

How can you separate the cover magnetic field interference from the eddy current influence? How can you pinpoint which is the controlling tonal factor?

[DavidRavenMoon]

First of all, let me apologize for my eddy current rant. I don't even know why I have such a bug up my ass on this subject.



How can you separate the cover magnetic field interference from the eddy current influence? I don't think you can. How can you pinpoint which is the controlling tonal factor?

The cover is not magnetic. It has no interference on its own. But in the presence of a magnetic field the eddy currents on the surface produce their own magnetic field that opposes the magnet in the pickup.

The more conductive the material the more eddy currents. An aluminum cover would darken the tone. Brass also. Nickel silver is used because it’s less conducive, but Seth Lover wanted non magnetic stainless steel covers. Gibson didn’t want to pay for those.

Another example is a cover that wraps around the coil to form a closed loop. Like a Tele neck pickup. If you cut a slot in the side of the cover the tone gets a bit brighter. The DeArmond pickups on the Fender Coronado had these slots. And it’s in the patent for those pickups.

Putting a loop of copper shielding tape around a pickup coil and letting the two ends touch can also darken the tone a bit. It’s always good practice to leave a gap. That’s called a “closed loop” coil. Bill Lawrence used that concept in some pickup patents as a way to tune the pickup’s sound.


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[ArtieToo]

Ah. Good info. Everyone always talks about the tonal impact of the cover. I just assumed it was magnetic interference. I wonder if it would be possible to solder a switch across that DeArmond gap, and switch it, and hear a difference? I have a pair of those DeArmond's laying around here somewhere.

[JB6464]

The Cool Rail neck is 9.4K. Usually wired in parallel. The Little 59 is 9.8k, usually wired in series. It’s a darker sounding pickup.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SD website states the CR neck is 9.8k