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3 PUPs - middle's in the way

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  • #16
    Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post

    FYI for #2 you can't lower the pickups on a Riviera or Casino. The best you could do is remove the shims, if they have them, otherwise you are stuck with the factory heights of the P-90 dog ear pickup cover.
    Ah . . . I forgot about that. P90s suck.
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

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    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SoPro View Post
      I have a very beautiful and nice playing Epiphone Riviera (ES335 style) w/ 3 dog-ear P90s. The middle PUP is a challenge for me. Not tonally, physically!

      I'm not a "barely touch the strings" speed demon. I tend to dig in my single notes and slam chords with some oomph and the pickup is literally in the way. Not all the time but often enough that I need to solve or sell. Since the folks who live online all seem to agree that the stock PUPs should be replaced anyway, I'm thinking of replacing the middle P90 with a flat dogear ring/adapter & then screwing down a mini-humbucker or TVJones filtertron extra deep, to be farther from the strings.
      3 questions:
      1. Is this feasible physically? Or will the semi-hollow's center block prevent me from recessing the new minHB to be extra low? (Can I lower it enough to make a useful difference?)
      1. There shouldn't be a center block. I know Casinos are fully hollow and I'm assuming Rivieras are also. Look in the sound hole to know for sure, or get a small dentist mirror to look in the sound hole.

        Originally posted by SoPro View Post
      2. Is this workable tonally? Or will the depth needed to liberate my power chords render the PUP useless? (Too far to be able to get anything close to the output of the other 2 PUPs)
      Dropping a P-90 down inside the body will dramatically change the sound of that pickup. Even a mini-bucker or filtertron would be pretty far away from the strings to sound normal. It would likely be dark and weak and too far away to make much tone up by raising pole pieces. Maybe if you get a really hot, overwound pickup it might survive being lowered that much. Personally, if it were me, I'd question if it was worth it for a Riviera.

      Originally posted by SoPro View Post
    • If answers to 1 & 2 are OK, recommendations? Keep P90s at bridge & neck, and only use mini in the middle? (Wasn't mini in the middle a sitcom?) Other combos?
    What is the middle doing for you now that is a must-have to keep? Is the Riviera traditional Gibson 3PU wiring where position 1 is bridge, position 2 is bridge+middle and position 3 is neck only? Or is it something else? For example, if the bridge and neck were humbucking P-90s, could you have the middle position be one coil from each and get rid of the middle P-90?

    Originally posted by SoPro View Post
    Thanks
    Randy

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    • #18
      I see a few routes here with a minimal amount of headache.

      Number one - unless this is your crucial #1 or #2 guitar, keep the middle pickup in this one and don't worry about the pickup getting in the way. You'll be forced to adapt your technique which will squeeze out some riffs you wouldn't otherwise come up with, and you'll grow as a guitarist.

      Number two - rip out the middle pickup and rock-and-roll.

      Number three - take it to a tech/luthier and get their opinion. They are worth the time and money, absolutely!
      Originally posted by crusty philtrum
      Anyone who *sings* at me through their teeth deserves to have a bus drive through their face
      http://www.youtube.com/alexiansounds

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      • #19
        Originally posted by SoPro View Post
        ISince the folks who live online all seem to agree that the stock PUPs should be replaced anyway
        Not to be a downer but this statement is a red flag for me. I wouldn't make this the reason to replace pickups. Curiosity, functionality, drastic tonal changes, aesthetics - yes. 50 parroted opinions on various forums - no. Because for every person that swears that a certain model of guitar has terrible stock pickups, there are likely dozens more that have no problems with the stock pickups but don't get on gear forums or Youtube to talk about it. That's just me though.
        Originally posted by crusty philtrum
        Anyone who *sings* at me through their teeth deserves to have a bus drive through their face
        http://www.youtube.com/alexiansounds

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        • #20
          Strat middle pickups are also a problem for me. I tend to screw the pickup down pretty low.
          Administrator of the SDUGF

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          • #21
            Square pegs never fully fit inside round holes perfectly. Best case scenario are "gaps" in functionality. If I were in your position, I would keep the guitar as is and adapt or simply sell it and get something that works for you. I have tried for years off and on to "learn" to work with a middle pickup in a guitar to no avail. I have sold some amazing guitars that I probably should have just yanked out the middle pickup and kept. I can understand if the guitar is really meaningful to you or you are attached to it to want to keep it and no worries there. If that IS the case, leave it alone and keep it. If that is not the case I would sell it and get something aligned and better suited to your playing needs. Good Luck!
            The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.

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            • #22
              Originally posted by SoPro View Post
              Thanks for the opinions, but before I give up (remove the middle pup or sell the guitar), I'd like to know whether my idea will work. There must be reasons Frampton & others like 3 pup Gibsons and that this guitar was made. (Not to mention strats!)

              All advice & replies are appreciated, but I'd like to start with finding out if my idea is doable. I bulleted 3 specific questions that I hoped could be addressed by the knowledgeable folks on this pickup forum.

              Anyone know if it can be done or why it can't?
              1: Physically possible
              2: Tonally, it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to find something that fits tonally and in terms of volume that much farther from the pickup.
              3. Other than what I already suggested, at the bottom of the page linked below, the author shows that the pickup can be lowered dramatically and mentions a method.
              Riviera P-93 Middle Pickup Mods
              https://www.planetz.com/riviera-p-93-middle-pickup-mods/

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              • #23
                the author shows that the pickup can be lowered dramatically and mentions a method.
                Chadd - You found a gem! It didn't look like there was a spacer but I'll check it out.
                Thanks very much

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                • #24
                  Keep in mind, that lowered pickup was only used as a humbucking coil for the other two, not as a sound producing middle pickup.

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                  • #25
                    I avoid middle pups too due to my hand size. On my Dinky, where the hums are a bit closer together, even the neck pickup is a little too close... Salt in wound: its an EMG, so it has to sit close to the strings....

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                    • #26
                      Sorry for delayed response. Turns out, there is indeed a spacer under the neck pup, but not under the middle one.
                      Only options are to give up (sell guitar) or to try my idea of using a dogear ring w/ a mini humbucker (or firebird pup) lowered enough to be non-problem.
                      Refining my original questions:
                      1. Since I already have a variety of 2 pickup guitars (incl. a 2x P90 SG, a 2x humbucker "LP style", and a G&L F100 w/ 2 MFDs), I thought 3 pups would be interesting to try. Does 3rd pup offer useful tonal additions or is it mostly a gimmick?
                      2. If you are a fan of a 3rd one, what mini (or firebird...) pup would you recommend to go a little farther from strings than "normal"?
                      thx

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