Custom Custom vs. '78

[Doublea1269]

I'm in the process of putting together options for a possible partscaster in the next few months, and I want to give it a little bit of a charge...my two current Strats are much more "vintagey", and while I'm not looking to get into metal territory, I do want to have more of a presence with this one. For quite a while, I've had my eyes on the Custom Custom for a bridge. It seems like it will fit the bill of giving me more output but not losing the warmth of the A2. I want it to cut and have presence, but not be shrill either. My style involves the sounds of the late 60s through early 80s...not looking for the "hair metal sounds".

But the one pup that keeps coming back to me is the '78. The thing I can't quite figure out, though, is how it differs from the Custom Custom, and what they have in common. From what I've read, they seem to share lineage, but something significant must separate the two. Does anyone have experience playing these two pickups?

[Clint 55]

The 78 is vintage output and the CC is medium output so that's the main difference. The 78 will be brighter and thinner.

[uOpt]

The 78 has significantly more treble. Pretty sure it is a AWG 42 PAF class pickup, whereas the CC is AWG 43 thinner wire.

I think the CC is excellent in a tremolo guitar for driven sounds. But if you want to start ca. 1960 with what you are playing the 78 might be better.

[beaubrummels]

I'm in the process of putting together options for a possible partscaster in the next few months, and I want to give it a little bit of a charge...my two current Strats are much more "vintagey", and while I'm not looking to get into metal territory, I do want to have more of a presence with this one. For quite a while, I've had my eyes on the Custom Custom for a bridge. It seems like it will fit the bill of giving me more output but not losing the warmth of the A2. I want it to cut and have presence, but not be shrill either. My style involves the sounds of the late 60s through early 80s...not looking for the "hair metal sounds".

But the one pup that keeps coming back to me is the '78. The thing I can't quite figure out, though, is how it differs from the Custom Custom, and what they have in common. From what I've read, they seem to share lineage, but something significant must separate the two. Does anyone have experience playing these two pickups?

I've played them both in multiple guitars and they don't sound anything alike. Specs on paper do not determine what a pickup sounds like. The '78 is thin, bright and tight sounding, IME it enables you to get that 'starved plate' variac sound with a normal overdriven Marshall, without a variac. The Custom Custom is thicker and has a nice round mid hump in the EQ, it sounds like a tighter and louder Brobucker to me, but smoother in the mids (doesn't have that chimy peak that the Brobucker has, but it does have the general loud-PAF profile to it). But it's not anywhere near as tight as the normal Custom or a DIstortion. It has a definite A2 signature to it. The '78 doesn't really have an A2 signature to it. A '78 sounds like a Pearly Gates bridge with the bass rolled off.

[Doublea1269]

OK, makes sense...thanks for your input! Most likely the Custom Custom will be the way to go. I should've mentioned earlier, but I'll probably use a single-sized humbucker in the neck. I've been considering a Little 59 or Cool Rails for the neck and SSL-5 for the middle. Any thoughts on this and how well they'd mesh with the Custom Custom? Or is it just really going to be a matter of trial and error?

[Mincer]

The Little 59 has significantly more mids than the Cool Rails. It really depends on what you want out of a neck pickup. Both are god choices with the CC in the bridge. As far as the middle...how do you use a middle pickup? What is more important, tone or output (or are they equal)? I might also consider something stacked in the middle so it would be hum-free, but it depends on how much gain you use, too.

[ErikH]

Some years ago, Lew and I both described them like this; the '78 (then known as the EVH, for Evenly Voiced Harmonics) is chewy, the Custom Custom is creamy.

[uOpt]

OK, makes sense...thanks for your input! Most likely the Custom Custom will be the way to go. I should've mentioned earlier, but I'll probably use a single-sized humbucker in the neck. I've been considering a Little 59 or Cool Rails for the neck and SSL-5 for the middle. Any thoughts on this and how well they'd mesh with the Custom Custom? Or is it just really going to be a matter of trial and error?

I'm not a friend of either the Cool Rails or the SSL-5.

The hot rails neck is actually PAF class and not as thick as the name implies. I like it. It is still a ceramic pickup, so pretty tight and a bit compressing.

I never tested the little '59.

[Doublea1269]

For the neck, I want to have similar output to the bridge, a little less since it's louder to begin with. Also have some good clarity. It doesn't so much have to be crystal clear as just not prone to getting muddy. I'd like to have note definition.

As for the middle, my number one goal is tone. Again some clarity with a good balance...not too bright and spiky. I'd ideally like more output than you typically think of with a Strat, just so there is a good mix with the neck and bridge. As long as it can do some cleaner, quieter parts, that's great. I had been thinking the SSL-5 would do that, but maybe a Hot Stack or something different altogether? I toyed with a Quarter Pounder, but in all likelihood that would be too much.

Any other thoughts are greatly appreciated!

[Clint 55]

For note definition, go with the Cool Rails. The rail poles give a clean attack while the mini screws in the lil 59 make it crunchy. A ssl5 in the middle will work, being hot, it will balance volume wise and still sound relatively stratty. Although, the rec of a noiseless strat pup is good, nice to have everything noiseless.

[Mincer]

Actually for the middle Id suggest the Classic Stack. Lots of clarity with a little more output than most single coils. The SSL-5 is really warm.

[Doublea1269]

Ok, one last question...in regards to the middle, based on what little info I've provided!

Classic Stack, Vintage Hot Stack Plus or Custom Hot Stack Plus?

They all seem to have benefits to them. Do they all have balance in terms of not being overly bright? Some mids? I would like to be able to get Stratty single coil tones in the position, with the ability to clean up a bit but still bring more output than a traditional Strat. I hope this makes sense...I sometimes have difficulty trying to put sounds and tones into words!

The last element to this is I would like the guitar to have a "unified" sound. Basically, I want a smooth transition through the pickups where they sound "in the family". Not that they are identical, just that they share traits in terms of bringing more output than my other Strats do. Versatility, in the sense of being able to dial back a bit to get cleaner and quieter, and then be able to dial the rock back in. Not over the top metal, but good hard rock. Output and definition.

[Clint 55]

Imo if you don't care about classic strat scoop with bell top and specifically want not too much top and some mids then go for your hottest option of the stacks, the custom stack, or at least the vintage hot stack. This is because as pickups are wound hotter, they lose some top and gain some mids. That way it will balance volume wise with your other punchy pickups. You're definitely in the range for a unified rock strat sound with the pickups you're planning.

Here is a guy demo'ing a rawk strat with a JB, Custom stack, and a Jazz. Kind of similar to your set up. The humbuckers are hotter than the CC and Cool Rails but notice the Custom stack is set the highest. Also notice at 7:25 the Custom stack sounds a bit compressed. You get that when pups are wound hotter. The CC and Cool Rails aren't as hot as the JB and Jazz so I'm guessing either the Vintage hot stack or the Custom stack would balance volume wise. You'd just have to pick how compressed you'd want it. The classic stack would obviously be the most natural sounding because of lack of compression but then you would probably get a volume drop.

[rollingpap7]

The 78 has significantly more treble. Pretty sure it is a AWG 42 PAF class pickup, whereas the CC is AWG 43 thinner wire.

I think the CC is excellent in a tremolo guitar for driven sounds. But if you want to start ca. 1960 with what you are playing the 78 might be better.

well CC is such AWESOME in SEMI-hollows tooo!!
Chords do sing

[Aceman]

CAn't speak to the 78, but my understanding is that it is a VH PAF style.

The CC, which I am personally familiar with in Les Pauls and Strat styles, should do what you want just fine. Don't be afraid to adjust the treble poles to get what you need there.