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Pickup phase switch question

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mincer View Post
    An out-of-phase sound is certainly an acquired taste. I am sure people make a good use out of them, but I haven't ever had one instance where I needed that sound in any live performance or recording I've done.
    I use the tone all of the time, especially on classic rock stuff.

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    • #17
      Okay, an update on this since I finished the build last night. I may put this in another thread on the EMG HZ1 as well since we're close to off topic but I also found the out of phase sound on this very useful. So, I'll keep this discussion here. It might also help those curious to see how well Triple Shots work with non-SD stuff.

      As before stated I put the EMG HZ1s in an LTD EX-200 Explorer with volume and tone knob. The HZ1s were stock from another guitar that I put active pickups into, so I decided to keep the HZ1s and try them in something else. The LTD lost its ESP Designed pickups, which were already set to split via the tone knob.

      Each EMG HZ1 pickup got a Triple Shot and these were paired with a 500k linear taper tone knob with .022 uf ceramic disc cap because I have tons of those lying around from other import guitar builds. The neck pickup ended up getting the phase switch with a 500k audio taper Alpha DPDT. The volume knob hole had to be slightly enlarged with a taper reamer to accommodate this.

      Most of the guitar's existing wire was gutted and replaced with cloth push back wire, save the jack hot and ground wires.

      The HZ1s measured about 14.19k at the bridge and maybe a little less than that at the neck--12-13k. I thought there would be more of a difference. The only way I can differentiate the pickups is the screw placement on the covers. They combine screws with EMG's black plastic cap look. There is no model sticker on the back--just green circuit board. These are older block letter logo EMGs--maybe from 2008 or before.

      I was expecting perhaps a Duncan Custom/Custom 5/Gibson 498t/500t kind of sound--mid scooped and thumpy with a bright top end--but the HZ1s don't sound like that at all.

      The first thing I thought was--Bartolinis?

      The EMGs have a really open, airy sound that was quite bright. Their HZ1A line that uses Alnicos may better match the sound I was expecting. Their HZ2 line has specs that are more vintage in terms of resistance.

      The frequency response of the HZ1 was much wider to my ear than the usual EMG 81/HZ4, so for those looking for something different, the HZ1s might be something they will like.

      I thought my experience here might be helpful because it paired a Triple Shot with an EMG Quick Connect. Yeah, there wasn't much room, but by putting the Triple Shot connector right behind the Quick Connector I was able to make it all fit. The pole piece screws prevented me from putting the Triple Shot connector above or below the Quick Connector. In order to swap pickups I'd have to remove the Triple Shot connector, then the Quick Connect. But on the bright side that lack of room holds everything in place nicely.

      Whenever I do a build, I leave the most lead on as possible in case I want to swap things around later. It can make for crowded and sometimes messy cavities, so I had to come up with a way to keep everything neat and take any physical stress off of the Triple Shot connector if the EMG wires shifted.

      I coiled the EMG Quick Connector line around the Triple Shot and then fed it to the Triple Shot connections, keeping everything within the pickup height screws. This caused everything to bulge, so I covered it with electrical tape to keep everything in place. It looks ugly as sin, but it's all within the guitar pickup cavities, so no worries.

      After hours of frustration to find I had yet another faulty import toggle switch, I got everything wired up and played the guitar clean through a little Peavey Solo portable vocal amp that probably dates from the 80s. I use this to test all my guitars when doing electronics. Any real tone will be tried through my DAW.

      I was super pleasantly surprised. The unholy marriage of Seymour Duncan and EMG worked really well. I find some pickups don't really sound all that different with all the Triple Shot combinations (my Full Shred set comes to mind, but these sound great out of the box in series). But the EMGs were really reactive to however I set them up. Each change of the Triple Shot made a big difference in sound.

      The out of phase setting with the Triple Shots on parallel blew me away. The guitar became so clean and thin it was almost like a sitar--a really unusual sound coming from an Explorer. Once again another very versatile guitar for my collection thanks to SD's Triple Shot.

      My only complaints are I wish the guitar sounded a bit darker. Since I play metal anyway the bright guitar won't be a problem, but perhaps trying the HZ1 Alnico variant might get me the tone I'm looking for, as well as switching to a .044 uf cap. Caps can get too dark really quickly for me, so I tend to stay with .022 uf.

      I found the HZ1s to be really versatile, if a little bland and sterile, and without the mid spike of the 81/HZ4. This versatility might be why they came stock on so many guitars for a while. I certainly liked them better than my Duncan Detonators, but I'm not an Invader fan anyway.

      Some will probably find the HZ1 anemic and weak, but for those who get their tone later in the chain, I bet the HZ1 will sit in the mix well and sound just fine. They will need a bit of a boost though if you are used to higher output pickups.

      Sorry for the short novel. Hope this helped. Also, when using non-SD stuff with Triple Shots, remember that the wire colors will not match and you will need to plan accordingly. In this case green for SD and green for EMG were a match, but everything else had to be changed with the help of a color code guide that SD kindly provides.

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      • #18
        Happy that you found the OOP sound useful. It is certainly very pickup-dependent, and I have to admit that I haven’t tried them with HZ EMGs.
        Administrator of the SDUGF

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        • #19
          Before going to a higher value tone cap, you might see whether a 250K volume pot would take off enough edge to suit you.
          Easy to audition it reversibly by clipping a 470K resistor across the leads of your present 500K.
          If you decide you like it, then you can change the pot to keep the taper more natural.

          Try it fairly loud, though - sometimes changes that seem subtle at low levels make a pretty significant difference at band volume.
          .
          "You should know better by now than to introduce science into a discussion of voodoo."
          .

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          • #20
            Thanks eclecticsynergy . I think you know what I'm trying to do--get a ceramic and Alnico sound out of the same neck pickup--with the phase switch and Triple Shot making it sound like a single coil.

            Wouldn't rolling the tone knob half way approximate the 250k pot?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Inflames626 View Post
              Thanks eclecticsynergy . I think you know what I'm trying to do--get a ceramic and Alnico sound out of the same neck pickup--with the phase switch and Triple Shot making it sound like a single coil.

              Wouldn't rolling the tone knob half way approximate the 250k pot?
              I suppose so. It's often said that the first 3/4 of your tone pot sweep is changing the sound only through loading.
              Never been sure that's 100% correct, myself - I hardly ever roll back that far, but still seem to hear a difference when changing cap values.

              Another thing is, a 250K volume would take away a little sparkle & bite from your nice OOP sound, and you might not want that.
              I just suggested it because in general a 250K volume is the first thing I try for a guitar that's a bit too bright with a 500K.

              .
              "You should know better by now than to introduce science into a discussion of voodoo."
              .

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              • #22
                My fear with going 250k is I might max it out and not have enough brightness. I really only use 250ks on bass unless I want a Lemmy sound then I might try 500k.

                Also I might be a bit of a heretic in that I prefer linear for tone as I want everything to change smoothly as opposed to audio which I like for volume because you can do swells with very little movement.

                I really only see myself using tone at either 0 or 100% since I want to be able to recall the exact same sound when recording.

                For that reason I don't like onboard instrument controls. They'll never be as precise as a saved computer preset.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Inflames626 View Post

                  I really only see myself using tone at either 0 or 100% since I want to be able to recall the exact same sound when recording.

                  For that reason I don't like onboard instrument controls. They'll never be as precise as a saved computer preset.
                  Here's a thought: you could wire your tone cap to a center-off DPDT and two trimpots, instead of a tone pot.
                  That way you could dial in two presets and have them - plus wide open - available anytime.
                  Or just use a two position switch and dial in one preset value plus wide open.
                  The thing is, it'd be absolutely consistent and repeatable.
                  And you can tweak the preset(s) later if you want.
                  Last edited by eclecticsynergy; 10-03-2022, 10:39 PM.
                  .
                  "You should know better by now than to introduce science into a discussion of voodoo."
                  .

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