Seymour Duncan Goldfoils

[treyhaislip]

Why doesn't Seymour Duncan offer Goldfoil pickups?

I've seen "Goldfoil" covers but not an SD version of a Goldfoil (Teisco, Guyatone, DeArmond, Silvertone, Harmony, or Kay.)

I've come to really love Goldfoils especially in the neck position. Have seen alot of boutique companies offer them (Lollar, Mojo, Gemini, etc.) with even cheap options like Guitarfetish.

Just curious why Seymour Duncan doesn't seem to offer these.

[ArtieToo]

They look cool. Not sure how they sound.

[Blille]

A lot of what you see out there is a P90, tele or PAF pickup with a fancy cover, which like you said, you now can get from SD.

I agree it’s surprising it’s not offered since at least the look has become very popular in the hipster circles. I honestly don’t think the sound is for everyone and for those that it is I think SD may be too mainstream.

[ICTGoober]

I think it's more of a visual fad, more than an audio fad.
In almost 50 years of playing, I can say that those cheap old pickups do sound unique, but I would never call them good.

[Mincer]

Yeah, I think it is like lipstick pickups. People dig the look, and SD can do that. But they use the look in a better pickup.

[treyhaislip]

Interesting perspectives!

I've used Gemini pickups for 6 of my last builds, 4 of which were Guyatone style Goldfoils. They sound fantastic and in the neck position are warm without being muddy while also having phenomenal harmonics.

Might be the boutique build--I have not used an original Teisco or Guyatone as of today. But just would've thought the likes of Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio would have something to offer.

[freefrog]

I don't know why Duncan doesn't offer Gold Foils but... I'll admit that I tend to perceive modern clones as cosmetic copies more often than exact repros of these old cheap transducers.
Maybe it's hard nowadays to find rubber magnets like in the original ones (except fridge magnets)... and it's probably tedious to wind in the same way than in the past hence the standardized coils that I've found in current products (with a neat winding around run of the mill plastic bobbins)... The original PU's were more atypical and/or "amateurish" by their inner construction, AFAIK.

I've a vintage Silver Foil as a mid PU in a semi-Hollow axe. I had to open it in order to dampen its structure because it squealed but It's certainly an interesting model, somewhere between a SC and a humbucker without sounding like any of them. I'm less fond of my DeArmond "Harmony Maximum" (dated from july 1962): it's very dark sounding, like a P90 whose tone pot would be permanently lowered...

[treyhaislip]

I don't know why Duncan doesn't offer Gold Foils but... I'll admit that I tend to perceive modern clones as cosmetic copies more often than exact repros of these old cheap transducers.
Maybe it's hard nowadays to find rubber magnets like in the original ones (except fridge magnets)... and it's probably tedious to wind in the same way than in the past hence the standardized coils that I've found in current products (with a neat winding around run of the mill plastic bobbins)... The original PU's were more atypical and/or "amateurish" by their inner construction, AFAIK.

I've a vintage Silver Foil as a mid PU in a semi-Hollow axe. I had to open it in order to dampen its structure because it squealed but It's certainly an interesting model, somewhere between a SC and a humbucker without sounding like any of them. I'm less fond of my DeArmond "Harmony Maximum" (dated from july 1962): it's very dark sounding, like a P90 whose tone pot would be permanently lowered...

That is an interesting take, definitely understand the cosmetic side of it.

I find it interesting because a lot of times I've heard examples of Teisco vs Guyatone–I have always gone with the Guyatone "type" for the fullness and warmer tone.

This is a build I did using a Guyatone spec goldfoil in the neck, really like this type of response in a neck pickup.

[Chistopher]

I think it's kind of the same thing that happens to all oddball vintage guitar gear. Very inconsistent quality in a product that wasn't popular at the time, but now you hear rave reviews of the few really good ones, so the people that have them play into it to either feel like they have something special and rare or to boost the price they can sell it for.

[treyhaislip]

I think it's kind of the same thing that happens to all oddball vintage guitar gear. Very inconsistent quality in a product that wasn't popular at the time, but now you hear rave reviews of the few really good ones, so the people that have them play into it to either feel like they have something special and rare or to boost the price they can sell it for.

Well, I disagree with people playing into them and boosting the price they can sell it for. I would argue "PAF" followers have done that more than Goldfoils, Hershey's, Kays, Silvertones, etc.

I think there are more "PAF" style pickups by different makers than there are actual PAFs...

[beaubrummels]

I think there are more "PAF" style pickups by different makers than there are actual PAFs...

I don't think that's true. If you know the history of PAFs, the earliest PAFs weren't wound to a spec, they were wound "until the bobbin was 'full'", visually, which means almost every real PAF out there is fairly unique.

[freefrog]

I think there are more "PAF" style pickups by different makers than there are actual PAFs...

There's an army of winders on this planet. Each of them has his own idea of tone and most sell one or several P.A.F. variations. These products are stored on miles of shelves or already mounted in countless guitars. So you're potentially right, numerically speaking...

A paradox being that it doesn't prevent to miss the mark because even if the original recipes are applied in details, builders have no more at disposal the imperfect materials of yesteryears...

Another paradox being that some traits defining real P.A.F.'s (like double tones : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxM3nipaWw ) were probably considered as flaws and therefore avoided by cloners, in products attempting to improve the P.A.F. heritage. Being more played than real vintage pickups, these copies shaped the collective aural memory and were finally prefered to the real thing...

Not bad for Duncan, BTW : the 59 has been choosen as the most convincing P.A.F. replica in a blind test run by German pickups scientists, while a Throbak supposed to be based on original building process and vintage correct materials ended at the 4th place . :-P

https://youtu.be/5KHBrqxGPuA

To come back on topic, here is an interesting site about the even greater number of cheap pickups imagined by human beings (including gold foils style transducers but not only):

https://drowninginguitars.com/2012/06/29/the-bizarre-guitar-pickup-encyclopedia/

[treyhaislip]

I don't think that's true. If you know the history of PAFs, the earliest PAFs weren't wound to a spec, they were wound "until the bobbin was 'full'", visually, which means almost every real PAF out there is fairly unique.

Fair enough. Just seems like WAY more PAF models by different makers than Goldfoils.

[Mincer]

But PAFs were the sound of early-mid period rock. That is the sound the market chased.

[treyhaislip]

But PAFs were the sound of early-mid period rock. That is the sound the market chased.

I'm not arguing that nor am I saying Goldfoils were more popular.............not knocking PAFs nor questioning their popularity. I was just curious as they seem to be gaining popularity with makers like Lollar and Mojo re-create the old Goldfoils to sound like specific brands but nothing from Seymour Duncan.

I'm from a younger generation and not alive during the classic rock era but I could see part of the reason SD doesn't bother with them is a lot of those cheap Goldfoils were probably replaced by "normal" Duncans.

Not a historian of the Black Keys but I think they used Goldfoils on Little Black Submarine which sounded killer to me. I've had great expereiences with Gemini's Guyatone version in multiple guitars. How true they are to originals I'm not sure...not gonna pay ridiculous prices for a "vintage one."