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Heavier "Midrange" Pickup for Neck Position...???

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
    I've always wondered why passives are like that when actives can pull it off more or less more seamlessly.[...] if you're using EMG's, for example, 81/81 works way better. Hell, even 81/85 where the 85 is actually darker and hotter than the 81, kinda sorta works for most people. At least way better than the JB in the neck does with like almost anything.
    EMG's are actually very mid centric, with a frequency response that passive PU's can't emulate. I think I've already mentioned this pic comparing their resonant peaks (or lack of) to those of various passive PU's:

    https://forum.fractalaudio.com/proxy...9c5c58378e9e61

    Ironically, the hi-pass series cap and low-pass parallel cap that I evoked in my previous answer would precisely be two opposite steps towards this special EMG EQing (even if it's concretely impossible to emulate it by exclusively passive means). :-)
    Last edited by freefrog; 09-19-2023, 06:46 AM.
    Duncan user since the 80's...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
      The A2P, Full Shred Neck, Invader Neck, and (I think) Sentient and SNS Neck are more or less variations on the Jazz as far I understand, no? Of course, I'm exaggerating by saying 60%, but what I mean, even if the other neck humbuckers aren't directly based on the Jazz, most of them are more or less 7K-ish low-output winds that are scooped to varying degrees (if you compare them to the JB).

      Don't take me too seriously, though. You know me. I'm the guy that's salty because he doesn't feel the Jazz matches well with the JB... or anything, really, that's higher output than the Jazz Bridge, LOL.
      The A2P is not scooped at all, even though it uses the Jazz wind. It is a very different sounding pickup.
      Administrator of the SDUGF

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mincer View Post

        The A2P is not scooped at all, even though it uses the Jazz wind. It is a very different sounding pickup.
        It depends on what you compare it to. IMO, compared to a JB, it kind of is. But of course, we all hear things differently.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by freefrog View Post

          EMG's are actually very mid centric, with a frequency response that passive PU's can't emulate. I think I've already mentioned this pic comparing their resonant peaks (or lack of) to those of various passive PU's:

          https://forum.fractalaudio.com/proxy...9c5c58378e9e61

          Ironically, the hi-pass series cap and low-pass parallel cap that I evoked in my previous answer would precisely be two opposite steps towards this special EMG EQing (even if it's concretely impossible to emulate it by exclusively passive means). :-)
          Well aware the EMG's are bandpassed.

          But relative to each other, they're the same. Like two EMG 81's more or less sound the same. Both are hipassed/lopassed alright. So why is it that when both are in the different positions of the guitar, they sorta work, and two JB's which, relative to each other, are also the same kinda don't?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
            Well aware the EMG's are bandpassed.

            But relative to each other, they're the same. Like two EMG 81's more or less sound the same. Both are hipassed/lopassed alright. So why is it that when both are in the different positions of the guitar, they sorta work, and two JB's which, relative to each other, are also the same kinda don't?
            Precisely because EMG's are "bandpassed"...

            The big amount of bass of a high inductance pickup is "naturally" corrected by the acoustic hi-pass filtering due to bridge position. It's no more the case in neck position. In the following applet, set the virtual pickup close to the bridge then far from it to see what I mean.



            Conversely, the EMG preamp is kinda voiced like a built-in treble booster (with an accent on the low mids rather than on the high mids promoted by a Rangemaster... but with a similar "bass cut" effect... not so far from the "demud mod" based on a series cap and popularized by ArtieToo). That's what makes EMG's so adaptable to various positions. :-)
            Duncan user since the 80's...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
              It depends on what you compare it to. IMO, compared to a JB, it kind of is. But of course, we all hear things differently.
              I ain't hearing that, sorry. The peak in a JB is much higher. And I've used both pickups extensively.
              Administrator of the SDUGF

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mincer View Post

                I ain't hearing that, sorry. The peak in a JB is much higher. And I've used both pickups extensively.
                Do you mean resonant peak? 'Cause then, I don't think that's very subjective to evaluate. The A2P has a higher resonant peak. It may have a darker-sonding magnet, but it's got less than half the DCR. No way it's resonant peak can be lower.
                Last edited by Rex_Rocker; 09-19-2023, 01:58 PM.

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                • #23
                  Just make sure you're comparing apples to apples. This is a neck pup thread, so yes the A2P does have low buttery mids in the neck. While it doesn't have that thickness in the bridge.
                  Last edited by Clint 55; 09-19-2023, 04:44 PM.
                  The things that you wanted
                  I bought them for you

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
                    Just make sure you're comparing apples to apples. This is a neck pup thread, so yes the A2P does have low buttery mids in the neck. While it doesn't have that thickness in the bridge.
                    I think that's the thing too. Mincer mentioned he has extensive experience with both pickups, and I don't doubt it, but I'm not sure he's had that much experience with the A2P-N in the bridge or the JB in the neck, which would be the only 100% apples to apples way to compare them both. I theorize that because of how he's expressed he doesn't like the JB, and maybe I'm just projecting since as soon as I don't like a pickup, the last thing I want to do is develop extensive experience with it. I'm just assuming, though, so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Mincer .

                    TBH, I don't have extensive experience with the A2P's since I don't like them or those sorts of pickups. But I have tried the neck one, and I felt it just sounded like a Jazz with an A2 magnet. In a sense, yes, you could argue it could be perceived as a Jazz with more mids. For me, it's just a quieter Jazz with slightly softer highs and lows. But like I said, I usually have a hard time discerning the subtleties between pickups that I don't like since I don't usually spend a lot of time with them.

                    But what I'm arguing is we both perceive things differently. The JB is to me, all mids. To the point where in the neck, it sounds like pure mud, which is the exact opposite experience I have with the Jazz, and both, to me, represent the exact opposide sides of the spectrum of neck pickups that I don't like..

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                    • #25
                      Well Mincer is neck centric and you're bridge centric. You were wrong when you said the A2P is scooped, it's not scooped. Maybe you meant comparing bridge positions since the JB is ultra middy. Mincer was wrong when he said the peak is higher in the JB, maybe meaning comparing the JB in the bridge to the A2P's buttery mids in the neck. In the bridge, you're right an A2P would technically have a higher resonant peak.
                      Last edited by Clint 55; 09-19-2023, 09:15 PM.
                      The things that you wanted
                      I bought them for you

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
                        Do you mean resonant peak? 'Cause then, I don't think that's very subjective to evaluate. The A2P has a higher resonant peak. It may have a darker-sonding magnet, but it's got less than half the DCR. No way it's resonant peak can be lower.
                        I mean the EQ of the pickup.
                        Administrator of the SDUGF

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                        • #27
                          My understanding is that Mincer has evoked a "higher peak" in amplitude and not in frequency.

                          Also: in my data, the A2P has the resonant frequency expected from a conventional Gibson style HB, but a relatively low Q factor. IOW, its resonant peak is noticeably more open / flatter / broader than with a PG, for instance... and than with a JB.
                          Consequence: to obtain a resonant peak with the same shape (openess / broadness / flatness / roundness / softness) from a JB, it would be needed to associate it to a lower resistive load : 250k pot(s) or simply lowered tone control.

                          Now and regarding the idea that a SH4 is "all mids": it has more than twice the inductance of a SH2N or A2P. So, in similar conditions, it certainly rolls off higher frequencies way sooner, beyond its lower pitched resonant frequency.

                          In my mind, these perspectives make compatible the personal experiences mentioned above. YMMV.
                          Duncan user since the 80's...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by freefrog View Post
                            My understanding is that Mincer has evoked a "higher peak" in amplitude and not in frequency.

                            Also: in my data, the A2P has the resonant frequency expected from a conventional Gibson style HB, but a relatively low Q factor. IOW, its resonant peak is noticeably more open / flatter / broader than with a PG, for instance... and than with a JB.
                            Consequence: to obtain a resonant peak with the same shape (openess / broadness / flatness / roundness / softness) from a JB, it would be needed to associate it to a lower resistive load : 250k pot(s) or simply lowered tone control.

                            Now and regarding the idea that a SH4 is "all mids": it has more than twice the inductance of a SH2N or A2P. So, in similar conditions, it certainly rolls off higher frequencies way sooner, beyond its lower pitched resonant frequency.

                            In my mind, these perspectives make compatible the personal experiences mentioned above. YMMV.
                            This is the complex version of what I was saying. Thanks for articulating it better.
                            Administrator of the SDUGF

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                            • #29
                              One of my favorite shreddy neck pickups is the Evolution Neck. Its ceramic fwiw so it loses the top end brightness that you seem to find disagreeable.

                              But also, a single 500K volume sounds too bright/harsh to my ears. I bet that is the problem.
                              Last edited by Top-L; 09-20-2023, 05:24 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by eclecticsynergy View Post
                                I agree - when I think heavy mids DiMarzio immediately comes to mind. Air Norton makes a great neck pickup with a strong bridge.
                                Extra mids for liquid lead lines, but still enough cut to sound like a normal neck when rolled back a bit for rhythm.
                                Air norton is A5 and has that airy single coil top end. I think OP needs to try a ceramic neck. I didn't like the Air Norton neck.

                                This might be an exaggeration, but 95% of neck pickups are alnico magnet.
                                Last edited by Top-L; 09-20-2023, 05:32 PM.

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