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A2 in a 59--does it exist?

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  • #31
    more to a Pearly gates imho

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Inflames626 View Post

      But if I put something good into a pos pickup, won't that color the results? Maybe it will be the pos pickup's fault? I won't know I'll like it until I try with a non-pos pickup.

      For me I think mag swaps are like rebiasing a tube amp hot. Something I best leave to someone else.

      Anyway, the point of my OP is it seems to me a 59 would be better suited with an A2 for a vintage sound, but I'm sure there's more that goes into it than the magnet type.

      Also given today's product catalog might an A2 59 be close to a 4 conductor Seth Lover?
      First, play the pos pickup, so you know what it sounds like, then swap mags and notice what changes. That tells you a bit about what a different flavor of mag can do.

      Did you read the page Tone Fiddler posted? The 59s were reportedly based on Jeff Beck's 59 Les Paul. They switched to A5 for lighter string gauges (though that sounds dubious to me; I'd expect A5 just worked with more modern music demands.). But anyway, the 59s weren't originally A5, and they take mag swaps very well. Most every mag combination people have tried worked for various kinds of music and versatility.

      A 59 can't be made to sound like a Seth Lover with just a mag swap. Just like putting an A5 in an A2P makes a Jazz, not a 59 model. Different coils sound different. The mag just tilts the frequency response of that particular coil combo.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post

        First, play the pos pickup, so you know what it sounds like, then swap mags and notice what changes. That tells you a bit about what a different flavor of mag can do.

        Did you read the page Tone Fiddler posted? The 59s were reportedly based on Jeff Beck's 59 Les Paul. They switched to A5 for lighter string gauges (though that sounds dubious to me; I'd expect A5 just worked with more modern music demands.). But anyway, the 59s weren't originally A5, and they take mag swaps very well. Most every mag combination people have tried worked for various kinds of music and versatility.

        A 59 can't be made to sound like a Seth Lover with just a mag swap. Just like putting an A5 in an A2P makes a Jazz, not a 59 model. Different coils sound different. The mag just tilts the frequency response of that particular coil combo.
        I'm aware that the wind, screws, baseplate, etc. will have an effect as well as the other parts. I just thought it would sound close enough to a Seth to not be worth the trouble of a mag swap when you can just get a Seth. And I also thought the 59 wind was in the ballpark and just needed help from an A2 to sound more vintage.

        I would have assumed the first candidate for the A2P would have been a 59 before a Jazz since some people say a 59 sounds warmer and thicker than a Jazz. I don't remember the 59 sticking out in my mind in any way when I tried it out, which is why I thought an A2 might make it better.

        9s and 10s have been the most common string gauges for standard tuning for decades. That's why the thing about the strings being too light--even in the 70s--seems odd to me.

        Plus there's rough vs. smooth vs. polished magnets, oriented vs. unoriented, who makes the magnet, all the other components in the pickup. It's just more trouble than I care to mess with, especially when there are already so many preexisting pickup models out there that might sound largely the same wo me having to do the work myself. I feel like by customizing the pickup too much I might as well just be building my own.

        Regarding a "pos" pickup, since tone is largely about taste, I doubt the quality is that much worse than a US made pickup. Rather, it is probably less shielded than a US made pickup, and it probably has two conductors instead of four. It might sound slightly harsh or muddy but some people may be fine with that.

        The effect of the winding of the pos pickup, I think, would be difficult for me to separate from the effect of the magnet. And even if I practiced on a pos Acme pickup (thank you Clint 55 for putting "pos pickup" in my vocabulary ), there would still be the stressful first install on a name brand pickup.

        And I also know largely what I want by now. It's mostly just trying stuff for the sake of trying it. I never knew EMGs could be improved upon until I heard Blackouts.

        These days I tend to prefer Alnico V type PAF sounds of moderate output (say 12-15k) for rhythm sounds because of their clarity. Ceramics of a hotter variety get solos and melody work. A2s of a low to medium output usually get the neck position unless I want a bright JC120 type bright clean sound from the neck. Then I might go with something different.

        I think I've posted this before but in my experience a Custom 5/Custom with Triple Shots is the most versatile pickup combo I've ever tried. It's the only time I can get a warm and a bright clean out of the same neck pickup, especially if I run it in parallel out of phase.

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        • #34
          Also, sometimes things can be deceiving as far as a vintage neck pickup. When I tried Gibson 57 Classics I expected them to sound like an A2P but they sounded a bit honky, hollow, and mid heavy instead of warm and fluid. A 57+ in the neck served me well. I still have one there in my Hamer Scarab along with my 498t. I just wish the 57+ were 4 conductor.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Inflames626 View Post
            I just wish the 57+ were 4 conductor.
            Convert em ya weenie.
            The things that you wanted
            I bought them for you

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Clint 55 View Post
              Convert em ya weenie.
              I can't. Because I'm a weenie.

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              • #37
                The things that you wanted
                I bought them for you

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                • #38
                  Me trying to disassemble pickups:

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Plus I'm not practicing on a Gib$on pup.

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                  • #39
                    The things that you wanted
                    I bought them for you

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mincer View Post

                      Yeah, always 9s here.
                      Same here.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Inflames626 View Post
                        Me trying to disassemble pickups:
                        I'm not beatin' ya up . . . but you don't disassemble a pup to swap/flip a magnet. Half turn on each bottom screw. Then break the "sticktion" with a popsicle stick/tongue-depressor, then push it out one end.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post

                          I'm not beatin' ya up . . . but you don't disassemble a pup to swap/flip a magnet. Half turn on each bottom screw. Then break the "sticktion" with a popsicle stick/tongue-depressor, then push it out one end.
                          I thought the tape/bobbins etc. had to be disassembled. I certainly didn't want to get anywhere near the coils.

                          I have learned something today, thank you. Still not feeling brave enough to try, though, especially if the wind isn't optimized for the new A2 magnet, as seemed to be the case in the original design.

                          I would feel like maybe I'd need to redo the wind as well. The expectation would be a slightly warmer, thicker A2P since it would be based on a 59 and not a Jazz.

                          Still, it's really just curiosity. I've had great luck with a 57 Classic +/A2P bridge/EMG 60A in 24 volts for producing warm tones in the neck, as well as a Custom 5.

                          I may try a Custom Custom and Custom/59 hybrid in the neck next to see what happens.

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                          • #43
                            What I do is: Half turn on the bottom bobbin screws. Maybe 1 turn. I take a popsicle stick and cut off one round end. Then file the new square edge with a file to make a "soft" wedge. Use that edge to gently pry up one end of the tape. Just a smidgen. Just enough to see the mag. Then gently pry the bobbins up, (by a hair), to break the wax stick-tion. (A word usually used to describe motorcycle front fork action.) Then gently, (I'll use that word a lot), push the magnet out a millimeter or two. Just enough to "flex" the tape on the other end. Then use the stick to lift the edge of the tape, (at the "pushed" end), over the mag. Push the mag out a little more. If you're swapping mags, bring the new mag up against the protruding edge, before you remove it completely. That gets your N/S aligned correctly. Lay the new mag down on the table without losing its orientation. Slide the old mag out the rest of the way, and then pick up the new mag and slide it back in with the same orientation. Use the wood stick to center it. Snug down the screws and use your finger to reset and smooth the tape.

                            I should probably make a video of this. It's pretty simple. If you're doing a mag flip, it's exactly the same, but when you remove the mag, you flip it and slide it back in.

                            Edit: Above I said popsicle stick. A tongue depressor is better. But it's hard to buy just one. Ask for one next time you see your Doc.
                            Last edited by ArtieToo; 11-19-2023, 09:01 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ArtieToo View Post

                              I'm not beatin' ya up . . . but you don't disassemble a pup to swap/flip a magnet. Half turn on each bottom screw. Then break the "sticktion" with a popsicle stick/tongue-depressor, then push it out one end.
                              This is what I've always done. I've had some cloth pickup tape handy in case I can't get the stock stuff to stick again.
                              Administrator of the SDUGF

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Mincer View Post

                                This is what I've always done. I've had some cloth pickup tape handy in case I can't get the stock stuff to stick again.
                                Yup. I keep a roll around.

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