How to kill a "bright" edge????

[papersoul]

Hi guys! Weird question I know.

I started with a stock 2003 LP Standard with Gibson 300k pots, ceramic .022 disk caps. I never gave it a chance and never gigged with the guitar till I tinkered!

I installed the R/S kit which includes 500k CTS pots, .022 Hovland caps and special wiring. I since went back to standard wiring using the new components. Things were BRIGHT!

I then installed the Duncan C-5 and things didn't seem as bad but still bright. I then moved to the Rio grande BBQ. Still kind a bright! I thought the standard was .022 caps and 500k pots! I am a little annoyed. I tend to play everything on 10 (guitar knobs)!

Should I replace all the electronics with the stock Gibson electronics and swap pickups from that point?? Would a .047 or .033 cap be better?? I am at a loss!

My tech and I seem to feel the stock set up sounded best but I haven't gigged with it.

Rich

[HolyDirt]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

Hi guys! Weird question I know.

I started with a stock 2003 LP Standard with Gibson 300k pots, ceramic .022 disk caps. I never gave it a chance and never gigged with the guitar till I tinkered!

I installed the R/S kit which includes 500k CTS pots, .022 Hovland caps and special wiring. I since went back to standard wiring using the new components. Things were BRIGHT!

I then installed the Duncan C-5 and things didn't seem as bad but still bright. I then moved to the Rio grande BBQ. Still kind a bright! I thought the standard was .022 caps and 500k pots! I am a little annoyed. I tend to play everything on 10 (guitar knobs)!

Should I replace all the electronics with the stock Gibson electronics and swap pickups from that point?? Would a .047 or .033 cap be better?? I am at a loss!

My tech and I seem to feel the stock set up sounded best but I haven't gigged with it.

Rich

at "10" or fully turned, a 500k pot is brighter than a 300k pot, why not just roll back the volume a little?

[rspst14]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

At 10, the tone caps are out of the circuit, so switching to a different value won't make any difference if you play on 10 all the time. What about the amp, maybe it's a bit too bright?

Ryan

[papersoul]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

At 10, the tone caps are out of the circuit, so switching to a different value won't make any difference if you play on 10 all the time. What about the amp, maybe it's a bit too bright?

Ryan

My tech and I compared my LP to every other LP in his small shop and mine was the brightest. he had about 4-5 other LPs to set-up. He said mine got way too bright when I installed the 500k pots! Maybe it's the pots! Maybe this guitar just needs the 300ks.

[rspst14]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

Yeah, maybe the 300k pots with .022 uF caps would work best if that's the case. You may want to check with mouser.com, you may be able to find some pots that run between 300 and 400k. If it's just a little too bright, going all the way to 300k may be overkill. You might also want to check out linear taper pots. You can roll them back, and get a smoother drop off than with audio taper. With an audio taper pot, 90% of the adjustment is made between 5 and 10, so a small turn of the knob can have a major change.

Ryan

[papersoul]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

It was mentioned I could just change out the volume pots for the stock 300k.

[HolyDirt]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

It was mentioned I could just change out the volume pots for the stock 300k.

thats what i've been saying, you ride you pots all at "10" and 500k pots are way brighter than 300k pot, put your volume at say 6-8, it wont be as bright. Or just switch the pots back and keep em at 10... whatever... rolling the volume back is easier i'd say...

[Lightning]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

I can't believe no one has said turn the treble down on your amp. LOL but I think the reason you haven't done that is cause you need it for another reason. Are you getting the right neck PU tone leaving the bridge to bright (use a brighter neck PU and turn down the treble ). Or do you need the amp set that way so when you turn down on the guitar it doesn't get muddy (do the 50's mod). You have probably already done this but if you haven't try the guitar through factory hot rodded tube amp. Modeling amps in order to emulate tube distortion tend to be bright and when you try to back them down sound to 1k ish. A2 mags will also thicken your midrange and soften the treble.

[Bombay]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

Have you tried using a 250k pot ? There's an old article in Vintage Guitar article with Seymour saying he uses 250k pots for everything. I have 250k pots in all my guitars in the bridge position. This includes my Les Pauls, 335's and V's. I personally can't stand bright Gibson's and switching the pots always helped me out.

[ArtieToo]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

at "10" or fully turned, a 500k pot is brighter than a 300k pot, why not just roll back the volume a little?

At 10, the tone caps are out of the circuit, so switching to a different value won't make any difference if you play on 10 all the time. Ryan

Actually, these two statements are both incorrect. (Only the second part of HolyDirt's statement. The first part about pot value is correct.) The effect a pot has on the pickups "character" are related to its total resistance being across the p'up. Changing the volume setting will have no effect on this. (Assuming this guitar has one volume control.)

Also, a tone cap is always in the circuit, and rolling off some treble, unless you have specifically installed a "no-load" control. (Which isn't usual.)

Just wanted to clarify that.

[papersoul]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

Maybe I should have never made any mods to begin with......I have been playing for 15 years and I never have been one to use tone or volume. My amp has so much versatility....I just use the various channels for a variety of tones. Once in a blue moon I'll roll back the volume for a specific portion of a tune, but that's it.

Look at someone like Edie Van Halen only using a Volume knob. Seriously, I have other guitars that are definitely not as bright and I usually end up having to increase treble and presence on the amp to cut. With the LP, the cut is like a hot knife, but I prefer darker and thicker tones so it rubbed me the wrong way.
What about the caps?? Is there any way they could effect the tone/volume on ten??

If I am truly tone/volume on "10" guy......do any of these components matter much?

Sorry to be a pest, but sometimes I think others would get better use out of these components.

The one big thing I noticed when I installed the components, was a lot of odd noises vanished! What is that about? Why were they there in the first place! I have older Korean Deans that don't have those issues and I am talking cheap 500k pots and ceramic disks in those guitars. Chunking along on a riff would elicit weird noises whenever there would be a quiet spot.........sorry if I am not doing a great job in explaining.

Anyway......I will also say that my BBQ pickup is set closer than 1/16" from the strings. Could this be it also? I usually set pups high though as I usually find the tone fatter! Again, this pickup tweaking was done in the bedroom before hitting the rehearsal space.

I just remember bringing my stock LP to my tech's house and how floored he was at the tone. Ever since I started tinkering, he commented on the brightness! Keep in mind that all of my pickup changing came after the pots/caps installation. I think since this is a naturally bright LP, it is better suited to 300k pots. Maybe the old ceramic disk caps won't make much difference since I "rarely" use tone/volume.

Thanks!!

........I asked on the Les Paul forum and they gave a lot of the same answers so I guess I have a better idea of what I may need to do.

[rspst14]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

Actually, these two statements are both incorrect. (Only the second part of HolyDirt's statement. The first part about pot value is correct.) The effect a pot has on the pickups "character" are related to its total resistance being across the p'up. Changing the volume setting will have no effect on this. (Assuming this guitar has one volume control.)

Also, a tone cap is always in the circuit, and rolling off some treble, unless you have specifically installed a "no-load" control. (Which isn't usual.)

Just wanted to clarify that.

Yeah, I should've been a little more clear. It's never totally out of the circuit unless you have a no load pot, but you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference between a 500k tone pot on 10 and no tone pot. Kind of like when a true bypass pedal is in your signal chain but turned off, similar situation.

Ryan

[rspst14]

Re: How to kill a "bright" edge????

1/16 of an inch is a little too close to the strings if you ask me. You will get a fatter tone, but it'll also be brighter, and the magnetic field will pull excessively on the strings, which will kill your sustain. Before you do anything else, try lowering the pickups a bit. Then, if you find them too low, raise the polepieces instead of the pickup height.

Ryan