Les Pauls

[Chickenwings]

I read a lot of threads where people say things like "59s can be boomy in Les Pauls".
Im writing this thread because it seems to me that all les pauls are not created equal.
I think it is important to let people know the frame of reference for a "les paul". There is obviously going to be a big difference between all the eras and models of les pauls - and that is just from actual gibson les pauls. There are also a mind boggling array of les paul copies out there ranging from epiphone, to agile to the hideous bolt on guitar that i started out on. There are the mid 70s japanese copies that sound and play beautifully and there are the not so good ones.
What im saying is this:
All les pauls are not created equal.
As such all les pauls do not necessarily share the same characteristics.
Not by a long shot.

So, in the future my request is this: That when we offer advice to try to help out a forumite, can we please make the effort to explain a frame of reference for the sound of a particular pickup. Eg: I found that in my mid 90s epiphone that the 59 sounded too bass heavy.
This will at least allow the reader to fill in the gaps of their own knowledge when they are comparing their experience between, say a bright and lively R7 reissue and a dull sounding samick that they used to own.

This approach can also help readers who might be confused by posts that say things like "JBs are harsh an spiky" when the frame of reference is in a squier with a pot metal bridge.

There is a lot more to guitars than just their silhouette. Lets actually help people and give them useful information and a clear frame of reference instead of muddying the waters.

[ArtieToo]

Re: Les Pauls

Good post.

[Snake Aces]

Re: Les Pauls

Great post indeed. However, for some of us that is a lot of guitars to list.

For me personally, I found the stock 59 neck to be boomy in every 24.75" scale guitar I have used it in: Early 2000's Epiphone LP with 50's neck, 2004 Gibson LP Studio with 50's neck, Warmoth String-through mahogany body LP with Indian Rosewood neck featuring the 59 roundback profile, Warmoth chambered mahogany with quilted maple cap DC LP with all Indian Rosewood neck featuring the 59 roundback profile, Warmoth Black Korina chambered LP with Wenge neck/Ziricote fretboard featuring the 59 roundback profile. All of these guitars have had boomy results to the point where my bandmates requested I stop using the 59 neck pickup because they couldn't decipher the changes in progressions. That being said, swapping the mag or running the stock 59 pup with no cap or a cap below 0.22uf has yielded a lot better results.

The only guitar I ever liked the stock 59 neck in was a MIM Strat with a 25.5" scale standard thin maple neck. When I swapped the neck out for a Warmoth with a 24.75" scale the 59 was too boomy again.

I think that's a bit much to type in every response to the 59 but I understand why you are making the request.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Les Pauls

For me personally, I found the stock 59 neck to be boomy in every 24.75" scale guitar I have used it in

That is excellent and useful information for readers. Its not a general sweeping statement about "les pauls" and it also limits the statement to your own personal experience.
Fwiw, in my experience i prefer the sound of A2's in a 59.

[VHTJay]

Re: Les Pauls

Fantastic post and a mistake we often make when firing generalisations about pickups. That is why when I review or give an opinion about any pickup I have tried, I like to touch on what guitar(s) it was used in and if possible, the natural tonal characteristics of the guitar in general.

[Mr. B]

Re: Les Pauls

I've tried the 59 in the neck of 3 Les Pauls, one Gibson, one Epiphone 60's tribute, and one Epiphone Elitist. It was boomy in all of them. I still have the 59 neck in 3 Sg's, and it is not boomy there. To me, the Les Paul has a lot of fat natural bass and strong, present treble. SG's lack some bass and have more natural mids. The 59 with its strong bass, bright treble, and lack of mids, balances better with the addition of an SG's mids. Since that is my experience, I don't feel like I need to qualify it every time I say that the 59 is boomy in Les Paul Necks. I just depend on others who have found the opposite to add their experience.

[chadd]

Re: Les Pauls

There's no way to account for every variable, especially when the initial question is lacking in details. The key to having people provide better answers is to have better questions in the first place.

[allbutromeo]

Re: Les Pauls

One of these days I'm going to have to put one in my 81 LP Custom, maple cap, maple neck, and ebony fretboard. If it sounds boomy in that it will sound boomy in any paul. It's one seriously bright guitar

[LtKojak]

Re: Les Pauls

In most cases, boomyness from the neck p'up comes from having it set-up too close to the strings, unless it's a 490R or a '57 Classic, which winds are dark and wooly so the boomyness is tricky to dial out, specially in semi-hollows.

HTH,

[AlexR]

Re: Les Pauls

Also a variety of opinions helps. You can then get a gist of how the pickup fares in a range of situations......its the same as a lot of other topics like aesthetics, fave pedals, amps and the like. One persons opinion is never enough to make an informed decision, irrespective of how strongly they put it.

[tonaholic]

Re: Les Pauls

I actually love the 59 neck in a les paul and feel the bridge needs a little tweak to its attack.

[blueman335]

Re: Les Pauls

Part of '59N's bassy sound is the individual pieces of wood. I'm sure that in any given LP model, '59N's will be more bassy in some than others. When the variables all come together: guitar design, wood, amp, etc, then you get a boomy sound. There's been plenty of members who found '59N's bassy, most often in LP's but sometimes in other mahogany guitars. I don't think there's much point in people listing specific LP models. Boominess happens more often with '59's than any other Duncan PU. Either we let them know it's a possibility, or we let them find out on their own. But isn't that why people ask for advice here? What PU for their guitar? Don't they want to know what members have firsthand experience with where a PU works well and for what genres, and where it doesn't? What, we don't want them to know that '59N's can be bassy in LP's? No one's saying they always are. But don't they want us to tell them what has the best odds for success? Let's say '59N's are boomy in a third of LP's; don't you think a potential buyer should know that? He may be fine with the odds, or he may absolutely want it right the first time, and wants another recommendation instead. Don't we owe that to them? Rather than list dozens and dozens of models '59's have been boomy in each time someone asks, why not instead how important it is for them that they get the right PU on the first attempt.

For someone relatively new to aftermarket PU's thinking about putting a '59N in his LP, sure, we can not mention potential bassiness, and if he comes back and says that it's too boomy for him and why didn't we give him a head's up that was a possibility? What do we say? "Oh yeah, that's been an issue for some members over the years, but we didn't want to taint your decision. We thought it would be best if you found out on your own.' And he says: "I came here for advice from experienced players. You know this sometimes happens with this PU and let you let me walk into this blindly. I paid a guy to install it and now I'm out the money. I wanted to get this right the first time. A lot of help you guys were."

[Aceman]

Re: Les Pauls

Bravo Gibson!

We should all do our best to help inform the news. And being clear about the fact that ears and guitars really vary is part of it.

Even right hear we see a few things:

#1 I think it is just that Snakes doesn't like the 59. Clearly NOT the pickup for him. When you don't like it in any guitar, especially that range of makes/wood/etc….iut isn't the Pup - it's YOU. And that's not a bad thing. Just not your thing!

But then extrapolating your non-preference to the pup is the issue I take. For example. I have heard/played EMG's in all kinds of guitars over the past 30 years, been in band with a guy who had them, blah, blah, blah. I don't like them. They have a sameness to ME. But the fact is many different players get many different tones out of them that are fantastic. But I wouldn't say they suck.

#2 A CRITICAL point here. We see a LOT of "Les Paul" terminology thrown around as if it were a GIBSON. Yet many of those comments are about EPIPHONES (Or Agile, or Dean, or whatever…). Those guitars are NOT (especially Epiphone) nearly as good sounding in general, or as consistent as a Gibson - and Gibson can vary a freaking lot.

I can imagine some serious tone-turds that would sound boomy with a Full Shred. Epiphone will make a guitar out of anything laying around on the shop floor including an old sneaker.

#3 I rarely see this mentioned…but I think far far too many spend the time to REALLY dial in the pup. I bet half of the complaints I see about tone are due to poor setup and could be solved with a screwdriver and a little patience. (Is that Axl Rose whistling in the background?). The other half are probably due to flat out wrong pup choice out of the gate. There are numerous threads on this - I know - I've p[osted more than one.

You have to consider the SOUND you want! Bass, miss, treble, output, along with style of music, guitar and amp!!!!!!

I have three amps, Tube, Hybrid, and Modeling, with a total of 6 channels and 11 different tonal configs (models, tone shifts, etc…) not even considering a half dozen or more dirt box interactions! My favorite pickups can run from crap to amaze balls depending.


It isn't as easy as just throwing the name of a pickup out there and panning another. There are pickups I would never use again (but have had) that are the stone cold right solution for others. And my fave pup is sometimes nothing but wrong.


Great post Gib.

[blueman335]

Re: Les Pauls

But then extrapolating your non-preference to the pup is the issue I take.

But isn't that also part of what the person who's asking wants to know? Where some members think a PU works best, where some members think it doesn't? So it's okay to extrapolate your 'preference', but not your 'non-preference'? Bias can be both positive and negative, and either one can mislead people. I'm sure all of us have seen recommendations here for PU's for guitars/genres that left us shaking our heads. Do we speak up, and say there's not a consensus on that, or do we just let it go? A lot of the people asking for help in selecting a PU are beginners who are paying someone to install it. They don't want to have it take several attempts. It's not like with some of us, that don't mind tinkering, and have a soldering iron and surplus PU's, pots, and magnets laying around. This may be a once-in-lifetime thing for some of them.

When we make decisions, don't we want to hear all sides, pros and cons; and weigh those and decide ourselves? Do we want to hear only the 'good' about something. Or do we want to know potential downsides that others have encountered, knowing full well they may not happen to us, but that the possibility exists. Do we want to know going into it what to expect, good and bad, and not find out after we've bought something. Do you want to buy a car, only to find out that in that model it's just come to light that the engine sometimes falls out at 50,000 miles? Would you consider it 'negative' if someone told you before you bought that it was a possibility? Or would you rather only hear people tell you: 'I highly recommend it! It's been a great car for the first 50,000 miles.'

[uOpt]

Re: Les Pauls

There is obviously going to be a big difference between all the eras and models of les pauls - and that is just from actual gibson les pauls.

No, there are also large difference between same era and same model pieces of Les Paul.

The tenor of this thread implies that Gibson and manufacturers have a much larger degree of control than they actually do.