volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

Me neither, Artie. I'm sitting here with my Strat (Texas Specials) and as I go from positions 1-5, I don't notice a volume drop. I have the neck and middle set at 8/64" on the bass side and 6/64" on the treble side. The bridge pickup is cranked up a little closer with the treble side still a little closer to the strings.

Well, do you have an Invader in the bridge? you know, that could be the difference.

[ErikH]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

Well, do you have an Invader in the bridge? you know, that could be the difference.

No, it's fully loaded with a set of Texas Specials. I've never had an Invader.

[bop/fusion freak]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

there is definitely a volume drop on standard Fender's PUs.

[bop/fusion freak]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

It definitely happens on my strat. I was wondering if I could use a cap of some sort to keep the volume up?

[bop/fusion freak]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

in my experience only on single coils together. I have a 3 PUs Les Paul SG 1964 reissue.
I wired it to have 3 volumes and 1 tone, no drop at all.

[Chistopher]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

The volume drop on a Strat is because the pickups are somewhat mechanically out of phase with each other. The pickups sense different parts of the string on different locations along their vibrational "range".

[zionstrat]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

in my experience only on single coils together. I have a 3 PUs Les Paul SG 1964 reissue.
I wired it to have 3 volumes and 1 tone, no drop at all.

Big GAS for that guitar. Sounds wonderful.

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[Mincer]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

This happens on my HH guitars, when 2 & 4 are 1 coil from each humbucker, in parallel. It is about 60% volume of a single humbucker. I use the volume drop as an 'effect' or boost the signal after the fact.

[zionstrat]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

Agreed with all the previous recommendations and might suggest an alternative way to think about 2 and 4.

I'm assuming we all know that 2 and 4 are not true phase cancellation however many harmonics get tweaked from the combination of the two pup positions and when quack is optimized it usually does provide a thinner tone.

I encourage my students to dig into those less heavy sounds for rhythm and rhythmish licks... They can be far more articulate and you can make up the volume difference with a heavier stroke or bump up the Volume.

If you're after quack, a lowered middle pup with higher bridge and neck is often the best combination.

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[shadowfire90]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

two pickups together become a parallel connection in the usual strat wiring. There are some pickups that won't make the drop of volume as apparent. Say I have two pickups made exactly the same with 5k each, with nothing else into consideration to make a quick point. When two pickups join in parallel on a standard 5 way switch. it'll become 2.5k in position 2 and 4.

to make this simple. R represents 5k either pickup
R1 + R2 (R1 x R2) .. this becomes
10 divided by 25
2.5k
for those who want quick results parallel resistance calculators exist but it's enough to make a point

To combat this "phenomenon" with wiring and not pickup height adjustments, pickup swaps to make the drop less apparent and all is a tricky one. A few different approaches can be done. Some people will like or pick measure more than others.

With single coils
you can put them both in series to react like a humbucker. Now to do this you'll need either a push pull , super 5 way switch or Fender S1 switch. The issue with putting two single coils in series is that the output would be louder in positions 2 and 4. If you want to get your cake and eat it too I'd suggest Phostenix Strat X wiring. It gives you 10 sounds. But it's expensive to do and one of the more challenging wirings. The easiest way I've seen is Don Breja's way he posted. A link is below

with humbuckers
you can put them in series in position 2, however some pickups react better than others with this. I have a 19k / 10H bridge pickup. Yet if I make it go series with the likes of a Jazz or 59 you'd really have to stretch your ears to hear a difference. But on vintage pickups I've seen Joe Gore (Tonefiend) show off the jimmy page wiring which had series in it and it was a much better tone. The only time you'll ever really see series in a guitar is a tele with a 4 way switch unless someone modified their guitar. The term that floats around to put two humbuckers in series is the "megabucker"

on HSH guitars such as a Steve Vai Jem
where it's 2 humbuckers and a 2 wire single coil in the middle utilizing the autosplit mod this is an easy fix -
get rid of that pesky 2 wire pickup and replace it with a 4 wire. Than wire it without the autosplit mod. You'll get more power in positions 2 and 4 as it's two humbuckers going in parallel technically and not the humbucker coilsplitting to put up with the hum of the 2 wire single coil.

This is Don's video

[ArtieToo]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

to make this simple. R represents 5k either pickup
R1 + R2 (R1 x R2) .. this becomes
10 divided by 25
2.5k
for those who want quick results parallel resistance calculators exist but it's enough to make a point

This is a classic mistake people make in equating DCR to output. You can kinda do it for an individual pickup. But NEVER two in parallel. Two AA batteries, in parallel, are still 1.5 volts, but with double the current capability. Two pickups, (which are tiny AC generators), produce the same voltage output in parallel, with twice the current capability to overcome the pot/amp loading. They should not be weaker in volume. With the tiny exception of the slightly different string node that someone else mentioned.

[freefrog]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

Agreed with zionstrat about comb filtering.

The good ol' Tilman applet allows to see what this comb filtering does with 2 PU's in parallel: http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/

Regarding electrical parms, here is my take: all other specs being equal, the divided DCR evoked by shadowfire90 has necessarily for direct counterpart a divided inductance.

Take two SSL1 measuring each 2.6H and put them in parallel, their inductance will drop @ 1.3H.

And the lower the inductance, the lower the output (again: all other parms being equal)... or conversely - that's why a JB is more powerful than a SH1, in my own (experi)mental model: not because of the double DCR but because of the inductance jumping from 4 or 5H to almost 8H...

Now, this rambling about inductance is not the important part of my answer: the only important part is that for me, the drop of output with 2 PU's in parallel is totally normal- and absolutely useable musically. LOL. :-))

[GuitarStv]

Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

If you don't like the volume drop, use gain. If you don't want the drop clean, use a compressor. Problem solved.