Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

  1. #21
    tonewood instigator
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    5,977

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    The volume drop on a Strat is because the pickups are somewhat mechanically out of phase with each other. The pickups sense different parts of the string on different locations along their vibrational "range".
    Once I had myself a million, now I've only got a dime.
    Difference don't seem quite as bad today.
    With a nickel or a million I was searchin' all the time
    For something that I never lost or left behind.

  2. #22
    Ultimate Tone Slacker zionstrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    RDU
    Posts
    2,055

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    Quote Originally Posted by bop/fusion freak View Post
    in my experience only on single coils together. I have a 3 PUs Les Paul SG 1964 reissue.
    I wired it to have 3 volumes and 1 tone, no drop at all.
    Big GAS for that guitar. Sounds wonderful.

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
    What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

  3. #23
    Administrator Mincer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Tampa Bay area, Florida, USA
    Posts
    22,910

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    This happens on my HH guitars, when 2 & 4 are 1 coil from each humbucker, in parallel. It is about 60% volume of a single humbucker. I use the volume drop as an 'effect' or boost the signal after the fact.
    Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

    My Guitar, Gear, and Music Webpage

    Gear pics and more on my Instagram.

  4. #24
    Ultimate Tone Slacker zionstrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    RDU
    Posts
    2,055

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    Agreed with all the previous recommendations and might suggest an alternative way to think about 2 and 4.

    I'm assuming we all know that 2 and 4 are not true phase cancellation however many harmonics get tweaked from the combination of the two pup positions and when quack is optimized it usually does provide a thinner tone.

    I encourage my students to dig into those less heavy sounds for rhythm and rhythmish licks... They can be far more articulate and you can make up the volume difference with a heavier stroke or bump up the Volume.

    If you're after quack, a lowered middle pup with higher bridge and neck is often the best combination.

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
    What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

  5. #25
    Tone Member shadowfire90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    209

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    two pickups together become a parallel connection in the usual strat wiring. There are some pickups that won't make the drop of volume as apparent. Say I have two pickups made exactly the same with 5k each, with nothing else into consideration to make a quick point. When two pickups join in parallel on a standard 5 way switch. it'll become 2.5k in position 2 and 4.

    to make this simple. R represents 5k either pickup
    R1 + R2 (R1 x R2) .. this becomes
    10 divided by 25
    2.5k
    for those who want quick results parallel resistance calculators exist but it's enough to make a point

    To combat this "phenomenon" with wiring and not pickup height adjustments, pickup swaps to make the drop less apparent and all is a tricky one. A few different approaches can be done. Some people will like or pick measure more than others.

    With single coils
    you can put them both in series to react like a humbucker. Now to do this you'll need either a push pull , super 5 way switch or Fender S1 switch. The issue with putting two single coils in series is that the output would be louder in positions 2 and 4. If you want to get your cake and eat it too I'd suggest Phostenix Strat X wiring. It gives you 10 sounds. But it's expensive to do and one of the more challenging wirings. The easiest way I've seen is Don Breja's way he posted. A link is below

    with humbuckers
    you can put them in series in position 2, however some pickups react better than others with this. I have a 19k / 10H bridge pickup. Yet if I make it go series with the likes of a Jazz or 59 you'd really have to stretch your ears to hear a difference. But on vintage pickups I've seen Joe Gore (Tonefiend) show off the jimmy page wiring which had series in it and it was a much better tone. The only time you'll ever really see series in a guitar is a tele with a 4 way switch unless someone modified their guitar. The term that floats around to put two humbuckers in series is the "megabucker"

    on HSH guitars such as a Steve Vai Jem
    where it's 2 humbuckers and a 2 wire single coil in the middle utilizing the autosplit mod this is an easy fix -
    get rid of that pesky 2 wire pickup and replace it with a 4 wire. Than wire it without the autosplit mod. You'll get more power in positions 2 and 4 as it's two humbuckers going in parallel technically and not the humbucker coilsplitting to put up with the hum of the 2 wire single coil.

    This is Don's video

  6. #26
    Slutbucker Pimpologist ArtieToo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Jax, FL
    Age
    66
    Posts
    19,428

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfire90 View Post
    to make this simple. R represents 5k either pickup
    R1 + R2 (R1 x R2) .. this becomes
    10 divided by 25
    2.5k
    for those who want quick results parallel resistance calculators exist but it's enough to make a point
    This is a classic mistake people make in equating DCR to output. You can kinda do it for an individual pickup. But NEVER two in parallel. Two AA batteries, in parallel, are still 1.5 volts, but with double the current capability. Two pickups, (which are tiny AC generators), produce the same voltage output in parallel, with twice the current capability to overcome the pot/amp loading. They should not be weaker in volume. With the tiny exception of the slightly different string node that someone else mentioned.

  7. #27
    Toneologist
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    I don't know: the Earth doesn't stop to turn on itself...
    Posts
    685

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    Agreed with zionstrat about comb filtering.

    The good ol' Tilman applet allows to see what this comb filtering does with 2 PU's in parallel: http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/

    Regarding electrical parms, here is my take: all other specs being equal, the divided DCR evoked by shadowfire90 has necessarily for direct counterpart a divided inductance.

    Take two SSL1 measuring each 2.6H and put them in parallel, their inductance will drop @ 1.3H.

    And the lower the inductance, the lower the output (again: all other parms being equal)... or conversely - that's why a JB is more powerful than a SH1, in my own (experi)mental model: not because of the double DCR but because of the inductance jumping from 4 or 5H to almost 8H...

    Now, this rambling about inductance is not the important part of my answer: the only important part is that for me, the drop of output with 2 PU's in parallel is totally normal- and absolutely useable musically. LOL. :-))
    Duncan user since the 80's...

  8. #28
    Sock Market Trader GuitarStv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    14,860

    Default Re: volume drop on strat position 2 and 4

    If you don't like the volume drop, use gain. If you don't want the drop clean, use a compressor. Problem solved.
    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •