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Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

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  • #16
    Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

    I know this: Yng may be easy to poke fun at on so many levels, but he gets a great tone out of his strats: woody and articulate, and aggressive without being over-bright. I like to hear some wood and strings in an overdriven guitar tone, and the majority of superstrat users I hear seem to want to cover their tones in compressed mush. I'm struggling to think of a superstrat user whose tone I really like outside of Edward.

    The modern superstrat is a design that has evolved to deliver a high level of playability for certain specialized techniques. Playability is the focus and other aspects such as tonal strength and resonance are decidedly second place. The modern superstrat is generally the choice of the 'notes' player, as opposed to the 'tone' player.
    Originally posted by Jolly
    ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

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    • #17
      Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

      I think. like others have said here, Strats are fine for shredding. So are Les Pauls, Teles, etc. You use what you have; at least that's what you did before Charvel, Jackson, and Ibanez RG series. I remember when I was getting into Steve Morse. I saw his Tele. I hated Teles. I had a Strat and a 3/4-size semihollowbody. I remember seeing a pic of Julio Fernandez with a 62 Strat that he had retrofitted a humbucker in the bridge position. Now, bear in mind that this was 1985 and I had never seen that before; other than EVH's "Frankie".

      All that said, I believe all the shredder guitars that are Super Strats,and most are, were basically an evolution of the Strat itself if you think about it. Guitar designers basically looked at the Strat and asked themselves, "What can we do to make this guitar faster, louder, yadayadayada.....

      That's my take at least....

      Then along came Slash......
      -Butch

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      • #18
        Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

        That's it basically.

        You get a Strat, make it more sensitive to your fretting (either higher output PUs or like YJM ultra powerful amplification), make the radius flatter, the neck slimmer, the frets bigger/higher, the bridge more responsive and you're set.

        However at the same time you now have a SuperStrat...
        Originally posted by Blue_Fingers_Jay
        I prefer cheaper guitars, nothing is as cool as a cheap guitar that sounds awesome.
        Originally posted by That90'sGuy
        Not all guitars are created equal, so make sure it sings and if it does, you'd be silly to pass it up.

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        • #19
          Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

          Someone please explain to me, and perhaps the rest of the forum, why there's apparently some absolute about shred requiring paper thin necks with flat radii.

          It's clear to me that a guitar doesn't play itself, and the guitar's ability to cover a certainly style is dependent more on the player's ability. I can't shred, but I've never been so arrogant or overconfident in myself to blame that on my gear. That's nothing short of foolish.
          Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

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          • #20
            Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

            Originally posted by MikeS View Post
            Someone please explain to me, and perhaps the rest of the forum, why there's apparently some absolute about shred requiring paper thin necks with flat radii.

            It's clear to me that a guitar doesn't play itself, and the guitar's ability to cover a certainly style is dependent more on the player's ability. I can't shred, but I've never been so arrogant or overconfident in myself to blame that on my gear. That's nothing short of foolish.
            I agree to a point. In the end, you have to pilot whatever you're using. but...

            For a couple of years recently my two main gigging guitars were a vintage-style strat and tele, and to be honest they were difficult to play ay kind of complex lead guitar on. Now the stuff I was playing on them was a million miles away from typical 'shred' music, but on the rare occasion where I wanted to shift a gear in a solo, it was, well, pretty hard.

            One night around then I playing an out of town festival gig, and the support band had a young guy on lead guitar who was absolutely outstanding. I mean, this kid was up there with Greg Howe. Every kind of chops, great note choices, natural phrasing, everything fitted together musically. Of course (as usual for such a 'notes' focused player) his tone was a bit rubbish and didn't do his very musical playing justice, but it struck me that I used to be able to play a lot of the same stuff he was playing, and I would really struggle to pull any of it off with my current guitars.

            After that gig, I got my tele refretted and I couldn't believe how much easier it was to play. It's still not the most totally shred-friendly guitar out there (after all, I want it to sound good), but it really has helped me play more fluently.

            Real high end shredders of the super-uptight kind are essentially sportsmen. So they need a high performance instrument. Stuff like ultra-flat radiuses and thin necks do make that extra yard of difference when doing thumb-behind-the-neck stuff like triad sweeps and string skipping with tapping. And it works because those guys are making tiny, precise movements with relative flat dynamic range.

            The trade-off is that a super flat radius, low action popsicle neck is generally going to sound thin and is going to be an absolute hinderance if you want to bear down, grab onto that neck and play some greasy rhythm for two hours at a stretch.

            So while I'll always want a guitar that sounds good first, and I need it to be able to take a beating, a little playability can go a long way. I got TOO vintage-snob there for a bit.
            Last edited by Hot _Grits; 10-04-2007, 05:54 AM.
            Originally posted by Jolly
            ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

              Originally posted by MikeS View Post
              Someone please explain to me, and perhaps the rest of the forum, why there's apparently some absolute about shred requiring paper thin necks with flat radii.

              It's clear to me that a guitar doesn't play itself, and the guitar's ability to cover a certainly style is dependent more on the player's ability. I can't shred, but I've never been so arrogant or overconfident in myself to blame that on my gear. That's nothing short of foolish.
              Here's my take Mike...

              Like I said earlier, you use what you have and make it work. I think that designers looked at what would make shredding easier on a Strat; based on the fact that most players (not all) were using Strats to play in that way. IMO, that's where the neck and fretboard mods came in. Allan Holdsworth used a 70's Strat when playing with U.K. and Bruford. He went to a Charvel after that.
              -Butch

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              • #22
                Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                Right, bros, I understand that for most that a flatter radius and a thinner neck with low action certainly best facilitates fretboard acrobatics. I'm in agreement with you in that regard. What I don't understand is why it's sometimes seen as an absolute (not necessarily by the two of you). Ultimately I would hope a player selects a guitar based on what's comfortable, not on what convention says he or she should play. For instance, I've got large hands, and while I prefer a slightly flatter than stock strat radius, I abhor wafer thin necks.

                Hmm, all that when I could have simply said I more or less agree with you.
                Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                  I think it's because a lot of shredders prefer the flatter, thinner, wider necks. Some don't. Apparently most do, hence the designs...
                  -Butch

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                  • #24
                    Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                    Flat fretboard has to be, otherwise low action will not mix with bending.

                    Personally I think that a moderate V neck is better for fast play as the thumb rests nicely, but lower than just on top of the neck. Plus a moderate V also has thickness so that your hands don't tire.

                    I think I'm gonna ebay a Malmsteen or Blackmore Strat now

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                      I think when you can shred you can shred at what you've learned on. Is it a Strat? a LP? a superstrat? an explorer? a v? a mandolin? It's what your fingers are used to sit on.

                      However the conversation has widened the topic of the thread so, I'll post in that spirit too.

                      I think tone is a subjective thing so I wouldn't say superstrats have worse tone than other guitars. It's all about the user and the adjustment he/she makes.

                      I like the tone of many different guitars.

                      like from LPs like Zakk Wylde, Billy Gobbons...etc
                      from Strats: Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Chris Impellitteri, Malmsteen (his lead tone, not so much his rhythm one).
                      from Explorers and the like: early James Hetfield has awesome metal tone, Mr Durrell
                      and of course from superstrats: EVH, Kee Marcello (the hell of a tone), Rammstein, George Lynch, Bill Leverty (from Firehouse).Edit: also just heard Warrant's cherry pie. Very gutsy tone.
                      Last edited by Metalblaze; 10-04-2007, 10:36 AM.
                      Me(n)tal Distortion

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                      • #26
                        Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                        Theres never absolutes but theres generally accepted ideas of what works most of the time and what doesnt.

                        If you've got a family of 5 do you buy a 2 seat Miata sports car or do you get a mini van with three rows of seats ?

                        Theres no rule that says you have 5 kids so you must buy a minivan, and plenty of people hate minivans, but theres no denying that for a great number of people, they really do make sense and work.

                        You could learn to shred on any guitar, heck I've seen guys doing crazy stuff on an acoustic with 13's for crying out loud, anything is possible. Still though, if your going to suggest a guitar for shred, the usual suspects come to mind.

                        Same with amps, if someone says they want a good ultra high gain metal amp what would be a smart suggestion ? Engl perhaps right ?

                        Could we argue then that Fenders or Vox is "just fine for metal" ? Certainly would could, we could say theres no rule that says you only can use an Engl and that people who do are arrogant etc. Exact parallel to this thread isn't it ?

                        To each his own of course but if I was into shredding and I only owned a standard or vintage strat I for one would sure be looking into some other options to make life easier and help my playing progress faster.

                        I've owned a ton of Jacksons in years past and I can say without a doubt, that at least for me, they were MUCH better guitars for playing quick shredding runs, tapping etc.
                        -Burny Randy Rhoads LP Custom- C5/59 Hybrid Bridge/Fernades Vh-1 PAF neck
                        -Epi Goldtop - Custom Shop Mike Ness p90's
                        -Epi Masterbilt AJ500R rosewood
                        -Fender Classic Player 60's strat CS 69'

                        -Gretsch Black Phoenix - TV Jones Classics
                        -Danelectro Dano Pro Baritone

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                        • #27
                          Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                          I use a fender amp for metal sometimes. Of course, the signal is split so all the bass and mid frequencies go to a wall of 15" speakers.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                            Originally posted by millsart
                            Theres never absolutes but theres generally accepted ideas of what works most of the time and what doesnt.

                            If you've got a family of 5 do you buy a 2 seat Miata sports car or do you get a mini van with three rows of seats ?

                            Theres no rule that says you have 5 kids so you must buy a minivan, and plenty of people hate minivans, but theres no denying that for a great number of people, they really do make sense and work.

                            You could learn to shred on any guitar, heck I've seen guys doing crazy stuff on an acoustic with 13's for crying out loud, anything is possible. Still though, if your going to suggest a guitar for shred, the usual suspects come to mind.

                            Same with amps, if someone says they want a good ultra high gain metal amp what would be a smart suggestion ? Engl perhaps right ?

                            Could we argue then that Fenders or Vox is "just fine for metal" ? Certainly would could, we could say theres no rule that says you only can use an Engl and that people who do are arrogant etc. Exact parallel to this thread isn't it ?

                            To each his own of course but if I was into shredding and I only owned a standard or vintage strat I for one would sure be looking into some other options to make life easier and help my playing progress faster.

                            I've owned a ton of Jacksons in years past and I can say without a doubt, that at least for me, they were MUCH better guitars for playing quick shredding runs, tapping etc.
                            Certainly agreed. You can shred on quite many guitars but you can most easily shred on shred guitars-amps etc.
                            Last edited by Metalblaze; 10-04-2007, 11:04 AM.
                            Me(n)tal Distortion

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                              Originally posted by Metalblaze View Post
                              I think when you can shred you can shred at what you've learned on. Is it a Strat? a LP? a superstrat? an explorer? a v? a mandolin? It's what your fingers are used to sit on.
                              Right On....
                              -Butch

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                                Originally posted by Metalblaze View Post
                                I think when you can shred you can shred at what you've learned on. Is it a Strat? a LP? a superstrat? an explorer? a v? a mandolin? It's what your fingers are used to sit on.

                                However the conversation has widened the topic of the thread so, I'll post in that spirit too.

                                I think tone is a subjective thing so I wouldn't say superstrats have worse tone than other guitars. It's all about the user and the adjustment he/she makes.

                                I like the tone of many different guitars.

                                like from LPs like Zakk Wylde, Billy Gobbons...etc
                                from Strats: Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Chris Impellitteri, Malmsteen (his lead tone, not so much his rhythm one).
                                from Explorers and the like: early James Hetfield has awesome metal tone, Mr Durrell
                                and of course from superstrats: EVH, Kee Marcello (the hell of a tone), Rammstein, George Lynch, Bill Leverty (from Firehouse).Edit: also just heard Warrant's cherry pie. Very gutsy tone.
                                Hmmm. I've seen more than one occasion where a kid walks into a studio with a jackson or similar and ends up recording almost everything (particularly main rhythm tracks) on LPs, strats, SGs and similar. in fact, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that a lot of the recorded stuff you list under 'superstrats' is probably not a superstrat at all. Everything without wang bar on the first VH album is an ibanez destroyer, for example, and Lynch has a couple of nice old Les Pauls that have done a lot of work.

                                Now I've played some ok sounding superstrats in my time, but the fundamental problem with most of them is that they are designed in a way that removes wood from critical areas: under the bridge, at the neck joint and on the neck itself. Not a great idea if you're looking for a warm, balanced, resonant sounding guitar.
                                Originally posted by Jolly
                                ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

                                Comment

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