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Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

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  • #61
    Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

    a. within reasonable limitations you can play everything on anything.

    b. using gear that is uncommon in your style sets you apart and makes you more interesting then people who use the "common" gear in their style.

    c. I'd love to see more metal played on hollow bodies, jazz played on a BC Rich, reggae on superstrats... surprise me and thrill me...

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    • #62
      Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

      Originally posted by KeeperOS View Post
      Notes vs Tone. And I though we weren't about distinctions.

      I fully agree on the two approaches but totally shun the idea of only either being one or the other. You can be precise and 'notes' conscious without loosing track of the whole. You can both play sth full fast and precise and still have the tone quality.

      I would mention a certain guitarist but I have already done this one too many a times in this thread already...
      Skim read my post, then?

      -as I said, 'tone' players can play in any genre with any level of chops. Just as 'notes' players can play in any genre and have differing levels of chops. In fact I've seen some players with very rudimentary chops display the same kind of disregard for context that some superchops players do.

      It's about where you focus as a player and musician.

      But hey, in the end, this is how I see things. Feel free to formulate you own ways of viewing the wider guitar playing community...
      Originally posted by Jolly
      ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

        No, I read you fine, what I meant is that one doesn't have to focus either one or the other, one could strive to have both, precision and a heart. And it's not like I think you're wrong, I actually agree with 99% of everything you've ever said (and I read ). It's this one thing, I know players that keep balance between the two, being excellent performers that have put a lot of effort to having great tone without losing focus of WHY they're doing this (music, not playing or notes/tone).

        Sorry if I came out wrong!
        Originally posted by Blue_Fingers_Jay
        I prefer cheaper guitars, nothing is as cool as a cheap guitar that sounds awesome.
        Originally posted by That90'sGuy
        Not all guitars are created equal, so make sure it sings and if it does, you'd be silly to pass it up.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

          Originally posted by KeeperOS View Post
          No, I read you fine, what I meant is that one doesn't have to focus either one or the other, one could strive to have both, precision and a heart. And it's not like I think you're wrong, I actually agree with 99% of everything you've ever said (and I read ). It's this one thing, I know players that keep balance between the two, being excellent performers that have put a lot of effort to having great tone without losing focus of WHY they're doing this (music, not playing or notes/tone).

          Sorry if I came out wrong!
          Hey, that's cool.
          Originally posted by Jolly
          ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

            I’d fully support the “notes player” and “tone player” theory if it didn’t so far sound so ****ed pretentious. On many levels I agree with the principles (as in, tone takes a back seat to technique for some, and that’s not the case for others), but it feels so… snobbish… almost like class distinctions for guitar players.

            Maybe I agree with the principles because I realized long ago that I’ll never be notes player, so I might as well make the few notes I can manage to string together sound pleasant.

            That said, I can almost see the “notes player” and “tone player” as a parallel to, though not the same as, the difference between the guitarist and the musician. In one regard, it’s impossible to only wear one hat the whole of your life. Some days I wake up and I’m a musician. Other days, I’m a guitar player. It happens. What’s ironic is that the days I try to force musicianship, I end up sounding even more like a guitar player.

            edit: BTW, I'm not intentionally suggesting I think anyone here is "snobbish" or "pretentious." After reading that I see where it could be interpreted that way. I do think, however, that given the way it's described it can very easily be interpreted as a haughty point of view.
            Last edited by MikeS; 10-08-2007, 02:59 PM.
            Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

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            • #66
              Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

              Originally posted by MikeS View Post
              I’d fully support the “notes player” and “tone player” theory if it didn’t so far sound so ****ed pretentious. On many levels I agree with the principles (as in, tone takes a back seat to technique for some, and that’s not the case for others), but it feels so… snobbish… almost like class distinctions for guitar players.

              Maybe I agree with the principles because I realized long ago that I’ll never be notes player, so I might as well make the few notes I can manage to string together sound pleasant.

              That said, I can almost see the “notes player” and “tone player” as a parallel to, though not the same as, the difference between the guitarist and the musician. In one regard, it’s impossible to only wear one hat the whole of your life. Some days I wake up and I’m a musician. Other days, I’m a guitar player. It happens. What’s ironic is that the days I try to force musicianship, I end up sounding even more like a guitar player.

              edit: BTW, I'm not intentionally suggesting I think anyone here is "snobbish" or "pretentious." After reading that I see where it could be interpreted that way. I do think, however, that given the way it's described it can very easily be interpreted as a haughty point of view.
              Yeah, I'm not totally comfortable with the naming of my terms either, for precisely the reasons you outline. I have more of a problem with the term 'tone' player as that sets up all kinds of mental assumptions in guitar players. 'Notes' player has some possible merit, as I do believe that there are players who really get caught up in the notes.

              Fundamentally, the guitarist/musician distinction is probably a better way to go. However, it's a bit too amorphous to really nail down that guitaristic obsession that is playing a bunch of notes and forgetting context along the way. in this case, I was trying to massage the same basic concept as 'guitarist vs musician' into a form that communicated more directly with (generally) younger guitar players. See, I've been an overplaying young guitarist, and I know that everyone, including myself is exposed to the 'guitarist vs musician' argument and that it's easy to just accept it, not really think about it, and get on with whatever you're doing.

              The concept of the 'notes' player was intended as a sort of 'crowbar' to make the reader stop and actually think the concept through.
              Last edited by Hot _Grits; 10-08-2007, 03:12 PM.
              Originally posted by Jolly
              ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                Originally posted by Hot _Grits View Post
                Yeah, I'm not totally comfortable with the naming of my terms either, for precisely the reasons you outline. I have more of a problem with the term 'tone' player as that sets up all kinds of mental assumptions in guitar players. 'Notes' player has some possible merit, as I do believe that there are players who really get caught up in the notes.

                Fundamentally, the guitarist/musician distinction is probably a better way to go. However, it's a bit too amorphous to really nail down that guitaristic obsession that is playing a bunch of notes and forgetting context along the way. in this case, I was trying to massage the same basic concept as 'guitarist vs musician' into a form that communicated more directly with (generally) younger guitar players. See, I've been an overplaying young guitarist, and I know that everyone, including myself is exposed to the 'guitarist vs musician' argument and that it's easy to just accept it, not really think about it, and get on with whatever you're doing.

                The concept of the 'notes' player was intended as a sort of 'crowbar' to make the reader stop and actually think the concept through.
                Ah, I think I see where you're coming from now. In that case, I find the ambiguity in the distinction quite appropriate as it allows for free movement from one to the other. That may be a product of where I am as a musician and guitar player, as I can honestly step back and see how I've got a foot in each door. Sometimes I find myself wholly in one room, yet I don't always have control over what room in. If only it were as simple as knowing what side of the bed to roll out of in the morning.

                Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                  If only, indeed. We are what we is...
                  Originally posted by Jolly
                  ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                    Intresting idea's, or shall we say terms to get one thinking, regarding "musicians" and "guitar players"

                    Think about this, as a musician, you could write a tune with some simple 3 chord progression, play it from the heart and have created a modern classic.

                    As a guitar player though if you just did something simple and basic people would bash you all over the internet saying how you suck and how easy your stuff is etc.


                    As a guitar player it seems theres always this pressure we put both on ourselves and on other players to really play hard, fast, difficult etc stuff. Its often about if your arpeggio's are fast enough compared to someone else, what modes your using etc.

                    Obviously the mental "lines" are not going to be clear cut like this, but theres alot of truth just the same.

                    How many times do we rip someone, argue over who's a legend and who isn't etc based upon some silly little things like how hard the solo of a song was.

                    John Fusciante (sp?) for example. I can't tell you the threads I've read about people saying how he's over rated, how he sucks, how easy his stuff is to play, how so many people are better etc.

                    Based off what ? The fact he didn't play a flashy solo ?

                    The guy writes good music, gets some really creative and nice sounding tones, and has pretty good chops to boot. World class ? No but thats not his thing.

                    RHCP aren't making songs to impress anyone, they are just making music as musicians. We place all the rest upon them.


                    This is something to think about next time your working out some idea's, trying to track some ideas for a solo etc. How often do you have something you like but feel its boring, repetive, easy etc ? Are you thinking as a musician or guitar player ???


                    I think I can sum this all up with the example of the ever classic "guitar store" demo.

                    How many times when your checking an amp or guitar in a crowded guitar shop do you think about what to play and want to play something really difficult to impress all the strangers that don't give a darn about you in the first place.

                    I'll admit I've been there many times in my younger days.

                    I'd want to just strum some open A chords and try to dial in the amp but then in the back of my head I'd worry what the 14 year olds where thinking. did they think I couldn't play ? Maybe I should rip a few fast riffs so people who I didnt care about 5 minutes ago will maybe be impressed. Thats making myself into a guitar player in the worst way.


                    What I really want to focus on doing more is being a musician who plays guitar. Maybe I'll play something difficult, maybe I'll play something very easy. Whatever, its about playing what I enjoy and creating the music for the love of the music. Maybe you'll be impressed, maybe you'll just enjoy the song though its simple. Regardless its about doing it for the love of doing it and not to show how fast my fingers are, how much money I can make from the single, showing how punk I am, or anything. Its just me doing my own thing and those who enjoy it I'll be quite happy to have as fans.
                    -Burny Randy Rhoads LP Custom- C5/59 Hybrid Bridge/Fernades Vh-1 PAF neck
                    -Epi Goldtop - Custom Shop Mike Ness p90's
                    -Epi Masterbilt AJ500R rosewood
                    -Fender Classic Player 60's strat CS 69'

                    -Gretsch Black Phoenix - TV Jones Classics
                    -Danelectro Dano Pro Baritone

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                    • #70
                      Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                      Originally posted by Empty Pockets View Post
                      now keep in mind that i have two Strats and a Gibson with really fat necks, but what sounds, looks, feels, and plays good to you might be 180 degrees from what sounds, looks, feels and plays good to somebody else. just because you can shred fine on a Strat doesn't mean somebody else doesn't find Strats to have thick cumbersome necks that are useless for shredding.

                      i know you're really into competition and this thing being better than that, but the fact of the matter is there are a ton of different kinds of guitars out there because there are a ton of different kinds of guitarists. an "improvement" to one person is a step in the wrong direction to somebody else. we've all got different guitar heros, different favorite songs, different sized hands and different playing techniques, so just keep playin what you like and don't stress about other people's preference or technique. Honestly, a million posts on a trillion message boards wouldn't make the Ibanez and Jackson fans out there trade in their thin-necked Floyd Rose'd superstrats for a Fender...and why should that bother you? More Fenders for you and me

                      i mean we were in a restaurant, and you were eating a steak, and you saw me eating a chicken caesar salad, would you come over to my table and try to convince me that i should've gotten the same steak you did for this reason or that?
                      i think you missed my first post. i wasn't trying to say one guitar was better than another for shred or convince anyone that there's a better "shred" guitar. i was actually making a point to the contrary. all those people who say strats suck for shred are wrong IMO.

                      i don't care what people want or buy. what i like or dislike now might change in the future, so forget about trying to sway anyone towards something particular. if i do it's more of a "try this before making a decision" kind of thing. like i said, i've seen people shred on the most unlikely of guitars, so i have to completely disagree with those who say strats can't shred. besides the plethora of strat shredders out there without scalloped necks, it's evident that superstrats aren't superior for shred.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                        Originally posted by barbarianbrute View Post
                        i was actually making a point to the contrary. all those people who say strats suck for shred are wrong IMO.
                        Where are all these people?

                        -I even looked around someplace other than this forum: looked in the bathroom cabinet and behind the sofa, and couldn't find any...
                        Originally posted by Jolly
                        ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                          Originally posted by Hot _Grits View Post
                          Where are all these people?

                          -I even looked around someplace other than this forum: looked in the bathroom cabinet and behind the sofa, and couldn't find any...
                          They're always in the last place you look. Did you check behind the tv yet? Often times, when I can't find my keys, they turn up back there.
                          “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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                          • #73
                            Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                            Jeff Beck said for ZZ Top that their simplicity is their magic.

                            I agree and say the same for RATM too. I love their highly political style.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ywyqHHvvQ YEAH!
                            Me(n)tal Distortion

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                            • #74
                              Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                              Millsart, I completely agree with you about G3. I saw the Joe, John and Paul incarnation this year and was so bored I ended up walking around the lobby of the theater for quite awhile. I was like, "How many scale progressions can these guys play and pretend that they're actual songs?"

                              To be fair, I read in an interview that Phoenix was the first stop and they were all really competetive with each other that night. However, I bet it didn't get all that much better on other stops.

                              I was especially disappointed in Satriani, because his new CD "Super Colossal" emphasizes songwriting, melody and "guitar vocal verses" that place him much closer to Jeff Beck territory than the "Play over whatever's in the background" stuff he often does.

                              Two more points about SuperStrats - 1 ) remember the necks are also usually WIDER than a typical Strat, and 2 ) that it can be difficult to shred up high on the neck on Les Pauls ( and other 24.75" guitars ) because the higher frets get really close together up there. ( I don't know how Doug Aldrich does it. )
                              Heem6
                              www.HeavyMetalStrat.Proboards.com

                              3 Fender HM Strats * Mahogany Vandenberg w/Super Wizard neck * Kramer Baretta Infinity Sustainer * EVH B&W Replica * Mighty Mite Hard Ash Strat * 2 Hot Rodded Kramer Strikers * Custom-built Jackson San Dimas Clone * Damage Control Demonizer Tube Preamp * Lexicon MX200 Multi-Effects * Rockman Distortion Generator * Marshall DSL1-HR * VHT 1x12 Cab * Echoplex EP-1 * Ibanez Analog Delay * JOYO EQ Pedal

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                              • #75
                                Re: Strats Are Just Fine For Shred

                                Originally posted by heem6 View Post
                                2 ) that it can be difficult to shred up high on the neck on Les Pauls ( and other 24.75" guitars ) because the higher frets get really close together up there. ( I don't know how Doug Aldrich does it. )
                                I've found that fret profile helps a lot. A nice peak to the fret helps both articulation and gives you that little bit of extra space on a gibson-scale guitar. But yeah, it's a lot more cramped up high.
                                Originally posted by Jolly
                                ...but then again, I'm so deaf I can't even hear myself fart.

                                Comment

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