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  • #16
    Re: EL 84s

    Originally posted by Gearjoneser View Post
    You're going to hear some new threads from me, since I just spent hours hanging with the tube guru experience like nobody here has ever experienced. I spend the whole night getting drunk with Myles Rose.

    He sat me down at a computer going over many graphs of tube stats. It's a night that many people only dream of.

    I asked him about EL-84's, and despite his many years of NOS experience, he said JJ EL-84's are the clear choice. And for you my friend. That's the answer. Look no further.
    I've read through many of Myles' reports and that guy has forgotten more data that most of us will ever accumulate in a lifetime.
    '06 Gibson R8, '94 Gibson LP Jr Special, Fender CS Dirty Dozen Strat, Fender Hotrod '52 Tele, /13 FTR37, Kemper, DrZ EMS, DrZ Plus, Various pedals

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    • #17
      Re: EL 84s

      Originally posted by GinoAmes View Post
      Heres my Newbie tube question,(after 23 years of playing I switched to tube,yea!). My amp has Sovtek EL-84s, If I switch to say JJ or Mesa etc. do I have to get rebiased?
      Depends....
      If your using a class AB amp with cathode biasing then no you don't have to,..... however it is a good idea for optimum life and power.

      Some people have a variable resistor installed instead of the fixed resistor (s) so that the tubes can be tweaked.

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      • #18
        Re: EL 84s

        Thanks guys! I guess a call to Eurotubes is in order.
        Originally posted by tone4days
        we're not musicians, we're beer salesmen

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        • #19
          Re: EL 84s

          Originally posted by bungalowbill View Post
          Thanks guys! I guess a call to Eurotubes is in order.
          You might try and find some NOS Mullards first...they retain the sparkle and have a nice meaty tone, but they do the "edge of freakout" thing REALLY well when they're cranked.
          - Tom

          Originally posted by Frankly
          Some people make the wine. Some people drink the wine. And some people sniff the cork and wonder what might have been.
          The Eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn of the Crow.

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          • #20
            Re: EL 84s

            Originally posted by guitfiddle View Post
            You might try and find some NOS Mullards first...they retain the sparkle and have a nice meaty tone, but they do the "edge of freakout" thing REALLY well when they're cranked.
            My amp gets banged around gigging every weekend...otherwise I would go the extra bucks if it was a recording amp.
            Originally posted by tone4days
            we're not musicians, we're beer salesmen

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            • #21
              Re: EL 84s

              if myles says jj's then go for jjs/ he is the man when it comes to these things. so much so that groove tubes pays him to be a consultant

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              • #22
                Re: EL 84s

                Originally posted by GinoAmes View Post
                Heres my Newbie tube question,(after 23 years of playing I switched to tube,yea!). My amp has Sovtek EL-84s, If I switch to say JJ or Mesa etc. do I have to get rebiased?
                Usually you only need to use matched pairs. I can't think right off hand of an EL84 amp that needs biasing. It's always best to contact the manufacturer because you will get mixed answers from everyone else.

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                • #23
                  Re: EL 84s

                  Originally posted by Yngwiestein View Post
                  Usually you only need to use matched pairs. I can't think right off hand of an EL84 amp that needs biasing. It's always best to contact the manufacturer because you will get mixed answers from everyone else.
                  Er, the Blues Jr. runs EL-84s, class AB and fixed bias, and I can tell you that adjusting the bias can help the tone a lot. Of course you have to mod it to be able to adjust the bias first.

                  Many fixed bias EL-84 amps are "less expensive" and manufacturers tend to skip adjustable bias. In addition, a lot of classic EL-84 amps are cathode biased (e.g. Vox) and are therefore self-balancing (no bias adjustment needed).

                  Chip
                  Heritage 535 Special, Warmoth frankenstrat, MIM Strat, & Taylor 314C(no E)
                  Amp Builds: Tweed Princeton (5F2-A) variation, 2 BF Princeton Reverb clones, & Super Reverb clone
                  Sometimes use a Blues Jr., Tech 21 Trademark 10 & Power Engine 60
                  SPG modded DS-1, TS-7 & CryBaby; Visual Sounds Rte. 66 & H2O; Guyatone Tremolo
                  SD pickups: SSL-2, APS-2, tapped Quarter Pound, Custom 5 & Antiquity humbuckers

                  "Conan! What are the best things in life?"
                  "Girls, guitars, guns and cars!"

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                  • #24
                    Re: EL 84s

                    Originally posted by Fresh_Start View Post
                    Er, the Blues Jr. runs EL-84s, class AB and fixed bias, and I can tell you that adjusting the bias can help the tone a lot. Of course you have to mod it to be able to adjust the bias first.

                    Many fixed bias EL-84 amps are "less expensive" and manufacturers tend to skip adjustable bias. In addition, a lot of classic EL-84 amps are cathode biased (e.g. Vox) and are therefore self-balancing (no bias adjustment needed).

                    Chip
                    Like I said "usually" buy matched tubes and "call the manufacturer." I'm not a tech but this is what I usually see in my business.
                    Last edited by Yngwiestein; 11-07-2008, 03:13 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: EL 84s

                      Originally posted by Yngwiestein View Post
                      Like I said "usually" buy matched tubes and "call the manufacturer." I'm not a tech but this is what I usually see in my business.
                      IME the manufacturer isn't necessarily going to give you a straight answer either. Do you think a Fender tech at the factory is going to tell you "Yeah, the factory bias for a Blues Jr. is way hot. We really should have put a bias pot in there, but the bean counters wouldn't let us" ?

                      Back to basic rule that if it's fixed bias and there's a bias adjustment, then you ought to check the bias when you replace power tubes. Even if there isn't a bias adjustment, I'd want to check the bias on a new set of power tubes in a fixed-bias amp anyway just to make sure they aren't running really hot (or really cold).

                      Hope this helps,

                      Chip
                      Heritage 535 Special, Warmoth frankenstrat, MIM Strat, & Taylor 314C(no E)
                      Amp Builds: Tweed Princeton (5F2-A) variation, 2 BF Princeton Reverb clones, & Super Reverb clone
                      Sometimes use a Blues Jr., Tech 21 Trademark 10 & Power Engine 60
                      SPG modded DS-1, TS-7 & CryBaby; Visual Sounds Rte. 66 & H2O; Guyatone Tremolo
                      SD pickups: SSL-2, APS-2, tapped Quarter Pound, Custom 5 & Antiquity humbuckers

                      "Conan! What are the best things in life?"
                      "Girls, guitars, guns and cars!"

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                      • #26
                        Re: EL 84s

                        Do you think a Fender tech at the factory is going to tell you "Yeah, the factory bias for a Blues Jr. is way hot. We really should have put a bias pot in there, but the bean counters wouldn't let us" ?
                        More likely they will tell you to stick with the awful (in my eyes) rebranded Sovteks that Fender sells.
                        Gondola Kid
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                        • #27
                          Re: EL 84s

                          Originally posted by Fresh_Start View Post
                          IME the manufacturer isn't necessarily going to give you a straight answer either. Do you think a Fender tech at the factory is going to tell you "Yeah, the factory bias for a Blues Jr. is way hot. We really should have put a bias pot in there, but the bean counters wouldn't let us" ?
                          It wouldn't have cost one cent more or less to set it up with a colder fixed bias though.

                          Why is it so hot? I've never found an answer, and it's still hot, even after several circuit production revisions and guys like Bill Machrone making a big stink about it. Bill has no answer on this either.
                          You all became so much smarter and more mature when I turned off sigs and avatars! Wow, it's like magic!
                          DATA, NOT DISCUSSION

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                          • #28
                            Re: EL 84s

                            I've used Groove Tube, Sovtek, Ei, JJ, Mesa Boogie, TAD, NOS Tesla, & not sure how many others.

                            For straight off the shelf, easy to find & inexpensive, the JJs are worlds apart. This coming from a guy that hates their preamp tubes!

                            The GTs, Mesa, & Sovteks are all basically the same tube....I think...and depending on the amp & how gritty you wanna get, they aren't "HORRIFIC"...just not as good as the JJs.

                            I liked the Ei's but someone told me you need to be careful with them...something about the way they're wired can fry a resistor in certain amps. I'm an electronics idiot & couldn't explain it, but I've stayed away from them since then.

                            The NOS Teslas are SWEET !!!! But of course, a bit pricier. Not Mullard nuts, but pricier than JJs.

                            Oh and RFT made some that were extremely GREAT....but they're hard to find & pricy too.


                            Guitars: Frankinstein TeleBird/Classic Vibe Esquire w/BG-1400/Martin 000-28EC
                            Amps: 3rd Power Dream Solo 4 '68 Plexi/Port City Wave 2x12
                            FX: Skinpimp Faceplant/Skinpimp 3OD/Flyin' Dragon


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                            • #29
                              Re: EL 84s

                              Originally posted by Fresh_Start View Post
                              IME the manufacturer isn't necessarily going to give you a straight answer either. Do you think a Fender tech at the factory is going to tell you "Yeah, the factory bias for a Blues Jr. is way hot. We really should have put a bias pot in there, but the bean counters wouldn't let us" ?

                              Back to basic rule that if it's fixed bias and there's a bias adjustment, then you ought to check the bias when you replace power tubes. Even if there isn't a bias adjustment, I'd want to check the bias on a new set of power tubes in a fixed-bias amp anyway just to make sure they aren't running really hot (or really cold).

                              Hope this helps,

                              Chip
                              That's funny because logic would dictate that calling the people who design and manufacture a product is the best way about it. I don't know about Fender because I'm not a Fender dealer but I can tell you all the vendors I have called knew exactly what they were talking about and have been very candid about their advice.

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                              • #30
                                Re: EL 84s

                                Originally posted by Yngwiestein View Post
                                That's funny because logic would dictate that calling the people who design and manufacture a product is the best way about it. I don't know about Fender because I'm not a Fender dealer but I can tell you all the vendors I have called knew exactly what they were talking about and have been very candid about their advice.
                                FMIC used to be very open with information. Real company people openly discussed all sorts of fascinating technical stuff on the FDP.

                                Then one day it suddenly stopped.

                                Now you get customer disservice flunkies who generally dispense misinformation, and only on limited subjects.

                                With each passing year, corporations more jealously guard any and all proprietary information and do as much as possible to keep consumers in the dark, doing their best to dumb them down and make them better cash-cattle. I've been watching this very closely for many years, and it's really sad.
                                You all became so much smarter and more mature when I turned off sigs and avatars! Wow, it's like magic!
                                DATA, NOT DISCUSSION

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