banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

EL 84s

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: EL 84s

    myles

    thanks so much for your contributions to this thread and our little forum here ... please stick around because it is clear you are in the 'national treasure' league of guys who know tubes
    cheers
    t4d
    gear list in profile

    "no seymour - no tone ... know seymour - know tone!"

    Is it not the glory of the people of America that, whilst they have paid a decent regard to the opinions of former times and other nations, they have not suffered a blind veneration for antiquity, for custom, or for names, to overrule the suggestions of their own good sense, the knowledge of their own situation, and the lessons of their own experience?" - James Madison - Federalist #14

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: EL 84s

      Originally posted by tone4days View Post
      myles

      thanks so much for your contributions to this thread and our little forum here ... please stick around because it is clear you are in the 'national treasure' league of guys who know tubes
      cheers
      t4d

      I will stick around and thanks for the compliment.

      This is a very cool group of folks that all seem to have a basic agenda of helping each other and that is something that can be quite rare on many forums.
      Myles S. Rose
      http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com
      http://la-economy.blogspot.com/
      http://www.facebook.com/mylesr

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: EL 84s

        Originally posted by Myles View Post
        Well .... in the case of preamp tubes there are wide variances that folks call "good tubes". If you are close to SoCal sometime and want me to test and trace some of the stuff you have I would be happy to do so. Actually ... that same deal goes to everybody that might read this. You have to be here in person as I do not ship things back and forth.

        Wish I were in Cali Myles I would love to have you work your magic but I'm so far away in Taxachusetts

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: EL 84s

          Originally posted by J.LaGrassa View Post
          Wish I were in Cali Myles I would love to have you work your magic but I'm so far away in Taxachusetts

          Talking about taxes ... they want to raise the sales tax in CA and in L.A. the proposed new rate is 10.25%. Is that about as bad as it gets or what?
          Myles S. Rose
          http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com
          http://la-economy.blogspot.com/
          http://www.facebook.com/mylesr

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: EL 84s

            Originally posted by Myles View Post
            Chip,

            The Eis were great in a lot of amps tonally. In a Dr. Z Mazerati which has a split bias ... the left two tubes with a seperate bias supply than the right two tubes (not inner and outer as most grid biased amps with four tubes) ... I liked JJs for one pair and Eis for the other pair for some clients.

            But ... the caviat .... the Eis tended to be very unreliable to physical shock such as road travel on tour. If you use these on the road you will need to carry spares as they can fail or become physically microphonic with little or no warning.
            Myles,
            Are you aware that EI el84's and indeed a lot of NOS tubes are not compatible with some amps such as recently manufactured Vox AC30 and Laney VC 30's due to internal wiring differences in the pin used for ground ?
            Last edited by wanmei1; 11-13-2008, 05:48 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: EL 84s

              Welcome aboard Myles!

              This is a great group of guys and you are a welcome addition.
              www.soundclick.com/failedgrace
              www.myspace.com/robert_sherman
              http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1513342220

              T4D got a new gig!

              (Please send sig worthy material!)

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: EL 84s

                Originally posted by wanmei1 View Post
                Myles,
                Are you aware that EI el84's and indeed a lot of NOS tubes are not compatible with some amps such as recently manufactured Vox AC30 and Laney VC 30's due to internal wiring differences in the pin used for ground ?
                Do you know who this guy is? He know's.....
                '06 Gibson R8, '94 Gibson LP Jr Special, Fender CS Dirty Dozen Strat, Fender Hotrod '52 Tele, /13 FTR37, Kemper, DrZ EMS, DrZ Plus, Various pedals

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: EL 84s

                  Originally posted by wanmei1 View Post
                  Myles,
                  Are you aware that EI el84's and indeed a lot of NOS tubes are not compatible with some amps such as recently manufactured Vox AC30 and Laney VC 30's due to internal wiring differences in the pin used for ground ?
                  Umm, if there's a problem with those amps, it's the fault of the amps not the EL-84 tubes.

                  Do you know what the actual problem is with these amps and which tube brands/manufacturers do make compatible "EL-84s"?

                  EL-84 pinout is:
                  2 - control grid
                  3 - cathode and suppressor grid
                  7 - plate
                  9 - screen grid
                  4 & 5 - heaters
                  1, 6 & 8 are internal connections

                  Maybe some new "EL-84" tubes aren't really EL-84s. Just a guess - the AC-30 may use one or more of the internal connection pins to mount a component because some new not-really-EL84s don't use a pin for one or more of those connections.

                  It wouldn't be the first time this happened. Sovtek "5Y3GT" rectifier tubes don't meet specs for that tube at all and the voltage drop is 20-30 volts less than it should be. There's a mechanical difference between how the cathode and heater are connected (or not connected).

                  Chip
                  Heritage 535 Special, Warmoth frankenstrat, MIM Strat, & Taylor 314C(no E)
                  Amp Builds: Tweed Princeton (5F2-A) variation, 2 BF Princeton Reverb clones, & Super Reverb clone
                  Sometimes use a Blues Jr., Tech 21 Trademark 10 & Power Engine 60
                  SPG modded DS-1, TS-7 & CryBaby; Visual Sounds Rte. 66 & H2O; Guyatone Tremolo
                  SD pickups: SSL-2, APS-2, tapped Quarter Pound, Custom 5 & Antiquity humbuckers

                  "Conan! What are the best things in life?"
                  "Girls, guitars, guns and cars!"

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: EL 84s

                    Originally posted by wanmei1 View Post
                    Myles,
                    Are you aware that EI el84's and indeed a lot of NOS tubes are not compatible with some amps such as recently manufactured Vox AC30 and Laney VC 30's due to internal wiring differences in the pin used for ground ?
                    Yes, that can be an issue at times. Another issue in amps that have PCB mounted output tube sockets with a hole in the chassis where the tube has to pass through the hole to hit the socket ... the hole is based on spec bottle diameter which used to be consistent in the past but is not consistent these days at times. So ... you cannot even get the tube installed in the amp in the first place.





                    That 0.875 outer diameter can get to 0.90 and even larger.
                    Last edited by Myles; 11-13-2008, 11:16 AM.
                    Myles S. Rose
                    http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com
                    http://la-economy.blogspot.com/
                    http://www.facebook.com/mylesr

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: EL 84s

                      Originally posted by Myles View Post
                      Yes, that can be an issue at times. Another issue in amps that have PCB mounted output tube sockets with a hole in the chassis where the tube has to pass through the hole to hit the socket ...
                      I noted that you said in another post that you thought they were a good sounding tube apart from the reliability issues.

                      I think it could be advisable to point out that the tube is actually unsuitable for a few currently manufactured amplifiers and should not be used unless modifications to the amps wiring or the tube itself is made.

                      I wonder how many people have bought and installed Ei's only to have the fuses go or worse.

                      The manufacturer makes no mention of this also.

                      It would seem to me that for those that wish to use these tubes and don't want to modify their amp by having the sockets wiring altered, the thing to do would be to snip off pin number 1 of each tube with a pair of cutters.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: EL 84s

                        Originally posted by wanmei1 View Post
                        I think it could be advisable to point out that the tube is actually unsuitable for a few currently manufactured amplifiers and should not be used unless modifications to the amps wiring or the tube itself is made.
                        Please let me know what the actual problem is with these amps and which tube brands/manufacturers do make compatible "EL-84s".

                        Sounds like those amps you mentioned use pin #1 for something they shouldn't, but I'd really appreciate clarification. Especially since you said the warning applies to NOS EL-84s as well as Ei EL-84s.

                        I'm not disagreeing with you - just want to learn.

                        Chip
                        Heritage 535 Special, Warmoth frankenstrat, MIM Strat, & Taylor 314C(no E)
                        Amp Builds: Tweed Princeton (5F2-A) variation, 2 BF Princeton Reverb clones, & Super Reverb clone
                        Sometimes use a Blues Jr., Tech 21 Trademark 10 & Power Engine 60
                        SPG modded DS-1, TS-7 & CryBaby; Visual Sounds Rte. 66 & H2O; Guyatone Tremolo
                        SD pickups: SSL-2, APS-2, tapped Quarter Pound, Custom 5 & Antiquity humbuckers

                        "Conan! What are the best things in life?"
                        "Girls, guitars, guns and cars!"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: EL 84s

                          Originally posted by wanmei1 View Post
                          I noted that you said in another post that you thought they were a good sounding tube apart from the reliability issues.

                          I think it could be advisable to point out that the tube is actually unsuitable for a few currently manufactured amplifiers and should not be used unless modifications to the amps wiring or the tube itself is made.

                          I wonder how many people have bought and installed Ei's only to have the fuses go or worse.

                          The manufacturer makes no mention of this also.

                          It would seem to me that for those that wish to use these tubes and don't want to modify their amp by having the sockets wiring altered, the thing to do would be to snip off pin number 1 of each tube with a pair of cutters.
                          If you are talking Ei's ... yes, they can sound great but the reliability factor is terrible.
                          Myles S. Rose
                          http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com
                          http://la-economy.blogspot.com/
                          http://www.facebook.com/mylesr

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: EL 84s

                            Originally posted by Fresh_Start View Post
                            Please let me know what the actual problem is with these amps and which tube brands/manufacturers do make compatible "EL-84s".

                            Sounds like those amps you mentioned use pin #1 for something they shouldn't, but I'd really appreciate clarification. Especially since you said the warning applies to NOS EL-84s as well as Ei EL-84s.

                            I'm not disagreeing with you - just want to learn.

                            Chip

                            This is really a question for Myles to answer as he is the expert.

                            Myles will have a list of Ei tube incompatible amps , and a list of NOS tubes that won't work in these amps.
                            Here's all I know.......

                            I threw in a set of EI el84's into my ( at the time ) Laney VC30 and
                            Bang !......
                            Instant fuse disintegration.
                            During the course of my enquiries I contacted Laney and they said they new nothing about incompatibilty with any tubes.
                            I contacted a few tube places and they didn't know anything about this either.

                            The wiring of tube sockets on some modern amps has a different wiring configuration to most amps making them incompatible with a lot of NOS tubes and also incompatible with Ei El84 tubes as well.
                            Both NOS and Ei El84's are internally wired the same way, which is to say different to most modern manufactured tubes.

                            In NOS and Ei tubes, Pin1 and Pin 2 are tied together internally.

                            There may be other currently manufactured tubes that are incompatible as well, I dont think so however Myles will know if there are any others.

                            Some some current production versions of the Vox AC30,
                            The Laney VC 30, Lexicon signature 284 and Fender Vibro king are not suitable for NOS or Ei tubes.
                            Check with the amp manufacturers but I think most will tell you they've never heard of such a thing at least they hadn't a couple of years ago.

                            There are others too I think, but for a better explanation of the above and a full list of tubes and amps etc., you will have to ask Myles.
                            Last edited by wanmei1; 11-15-2008, 12:22 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: EL 84s

                              Originally posted by Myles View Post
                              If you are talking Ei's ... yes, they can sound great but the reliability factor is terrible.
                              Not to mention the atrocious signal to noise ratio of a lot of these tubes.

                              One of the many importers for these tubes in the US are selling Ei's in a different color box to the normal Ei's and have been burnt in for 24 hours and then tested for s/n and general specs and those tubes that pass are then treated to having the pins gold plated.
                              These tubes are sold at a premium price over the non tested tubes with non plated pins and may,....MAY....go some way to addressing the poor quality control of the factory.
                              I say may as I haven't tried em'.....how about you ?

                              Can you address my post below re a list of amps and tubes that are incompatible.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: EL 84s

                                There is really no list of what is wired in what way. It can even change from run to run from the same tube maker to cut cost.

                                Basically ... if there ever is a problem you should contact the tube seller and have them complain to the vendor and cover the cost of repairs if the vendor does not use the design pin spec as shown in the first post I did here. If the are not design spec then there should be a warning or data sheet on the box or supplied with the tube.

                                The 9cv drawing about is how the tube should always be wired.
                                Myles S. Rose
                                http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com
                                http://la-economy.blogspot.com/
                                http://www.facebook.com/mylesr

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X