EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

[jimijames]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Well, I need to be open minded. Point me to one of Gilmour's instrtumental albums and we'll see if his guitar can hold the album together.

I always viewed him as one of the MOST overrated players. A guy who can do tasteful pentatonic breaks, backed up by a really good sounding production. Not the stuff (real) guitar heroes are made of.

I would bet you would say matisse and picasso sucked as artists because their work wasn't technically complicated or precise, huh? Looks like Kodak is a better artist than either of them, at least his paintings are more precise, right? David Gilmour has the best phrasing of almost any guitarist I've ever heard. It is infinitely more difficult to blow people away with a single note than it is to wank mindlessly, to get inside that note and commit to it your entire being - something Steve Lukather would be hard pressed to do playing 14 million notes an hour. I bet you think B.B. king and Eric Clapton suck too just because they don't play fast.

Honestly, I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying it isn't difficult to shred like steve lukather, I certainly can't. But so many people lose perspective after practicing 8 hours a day for years on end. It's like someone who spends their entire life in a library, then goes out into the world to find that they can't connect with anybody because they don't have any life experience. Music isn't about how fast or cleanly you can play, it's a direct communication of emotion and experience without any of that language nonsense or barrier. It's a means of transcending your physical surroundings and understanding other people in a way that it impossible to describe in words.

It's about making people dance, laugh, cry, and grow. I don't know, when I hear Yngwie malmsteen, Stever Lukather, Michael Angelo Batio, et al, I just don't hear that. It sounds like they're trying to impress people, like they're saying "look at me! Look how cool I am! I can play faster than you, na na na na na na!"

And as far as "real" guitar heros go, that's totally missing the point. Any guitar 'hero' would tell you they consider themselves musicians first and foremost. The guitar is a means to an end, not the end itself.

[blueman335]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

For someone who's so sure of every word he types, you take an aweful lot of shots in the dark.

That's part of my charm.

[blueman335]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

All I need is my Strat, a George L cord and one of my Fender amps to get a satisfying tone out of my EMG's...and 45+ years of playing experience.

That 45 years is something that can't be quantified, and can't be bought at any price. It's as much a part of your tone as any gear you use.

[TimmyPage]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I used to not like EMG's.. every time I heard a player who used them all I heard was sterile, ugly, weak and thin sounding.

I learned later that this was the player himself and not his pickups - many of the famous EMG users just don't know how to set up their tone, using too much distortion, or chorus, or sucking the mids out. Generally, a setup that any guitar would sound terrible through.

[veryhungrycaterpilla]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

i like emg's a lot. I have three sets. One set is in a yamaha bass and two sets are in strats. There's a lot of prejudice against emg's by players who probably have no experience with emg's but have read crap on the internet dissing emg's and now they pass those views off as their own in order to sound more worldly than they really are.

There's lots of good stuff out there - and it doesn't come from just one manufacturer.

That said, most of my guitars have duncans. And like most players, i don't use or keep anything that doesn't sound good to me.

Lew

+1

[WyrmCracker]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I would bet you would say matisse and picasso sucked as artists because their work wasn't technically complicated or precise, huh? Looks like Kodak is a better artist than either of them, at least his paintings are more precise, right? David Gilmour has the best phrasing of almost any guitarist I've ever heard. It is infinitely more difficult to blow people away with a single note than it is to wank mindlessly, to get inside that note and commit to it your entire being - something Steve Lukather would be hard pressed to do playing 14 million notes an hour. I bet you think B.B. king and Eric Clapton suck too just because they don't play fast.

Honestly, I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying it isn't difficult to shred like steve lukather, I certainly can't. But so many people lose perspective after practicing 8 hours a day for years on end. It's like someone who spends their entire life in a library, then goes out into the world to find that they can't connect with anybody because they don't have any life experience. Music isn't about how fast or cleanly you can play, it's a direct communication of emotion and experience without any of that language nonsense or barrier. It's a means of transcending your physical surroundings and understanding other people in a way that it impossible to describe in words.

It's about making people dance, laugh, cry, and grow. I don't know, when I hear Yngwie malmsteen, Stever Lukather, Michael Angelo Batio, et al, I just don't hear that. It sounds like they're trying to impress people, like they're saying "look at me! Look how cool I am! I can play faster than you, na na na na na na!"

And as far as "real" guitar heros go, that's totally missing the point. Any guitar 'hero' would tell you they consider themselves musicians first and foremost. The guitar is a means to an end, not the end itself.

Im not saying that Gilmour isnt tatefull or that he is not fast enough. Im saying that he hasnt shown enough range of emotion or ability on guitar to be considered a great. He's pretty good.

Being in a legendary band and laying down some memorable solos is WAY differnt than being a great guitarist or musician.

Point me to some of his solo work that showcases his writing and playing and I'll reevaluate.

[blueman335]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Sorry to have started a thread that spun so wildly off course.

Joe, you had no idea (either did the rest of us). Now its on who likes Gilmour's style. Where will it go next?

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

It's not that it's "crap". It's a matter of taste. And budgets; international acts have all kinds of gear to improve their tones. Stuff most of us can't afford. So something may not give us the same tone as the big boys, with the inexpensive equipment we have to work with.

I dont work with inexpensive equipment thank you very much.


I think EMG's single coil pickups are great sounding. I am not a fan of the humbuckers but they work well and there are a lot of great tones out there recorded with EMG. One of my fav live tones ever was keith Urban a few years ago, his black strat and his maple top tele were all outfitted with EMG pickups. Keith's sound on the new tour with old Gibsons wasnt nearly as good.

Vince Gill also gets amazing tones with his EMG set.

[blueman335]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

One of my fav live tones ever was keith Urban a few years ago, his black strat and his maple top tele were all outfitted with EMG pickups...Vince Gill also gets amazing tones with his EMG set.

Was Keith using active or passive EMG's? And Vince sure does some great stuff.

[Archer_of_Fish]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Was Keith using active or passive EMG's? And Vince sure does some great stuff.

Actives, he uses SA's in the stratocaster and the tele has a strat SA in the bridge...nothing in the neck he leaves that spot empty.

Those 2 guitars into his bad cats was godly, as good as any passive tone I have ever heard.

I have seen Vince many times, his strats are EMG loaded and he goes straight into his RIvera amps. Killer tone, absolutely killer tone.

[BigJoe77]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

I've heard the rumor that he was using an SA in the bridge of his Tele, but I don't quite understand how.

Can you take the guts out of one and put it in the housing of another? Maybe it can be done. The reason I say that is because the SA has the screw mounting holes on either end like any traditional strat pickup does, but his EMG is mounted with the traditional one over/2 under screws inserted in the bridge. Plus, he's listed as an endorser of the EMG-RT Tele bridge pickup. (He's like my personal version of EVH tone chasing.)

[jasona84]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

This may be the most vicious I've ever seen it get one here (in my like two months here) Anyway, as the original post asked duncans-vs-dimarzio-vs-emg I have a few opinions. First, don't base any musical decision on endorsement, its the BIGGEST mistake a musician can make. Buying gear because Zack Wylde plays it is completely foolish, and to go with that saying that "well if Metallica uses EMG's they MUST be good" simply based on the fact that successful people use it means nothing. I despise that argument so simply throw all of those out. Anyway to the point:
DiMarzio-As mentioned, if you put those in any guitar they sound the same taking on less from the guitar and injecting more of its own tone in (for the most part, not the word of truth) You buy a tone zone you know what you're getting no matter what you put it in. I also find them to be a little too experimental for me in the bridge...BUT DiMarzio makes one badass neck pickup. I would blindy put any of their necks pickups in a guitar. They just sound more fun, I HATE the tone chase the 59' has created. I want to sound different. So try their neck pickups and have fun
Dunca-I found these at the beginning stage of my playing and was BLOWN away, and as I joined this forum after 9 years of playing I've learned even more about them and how to really dial in their tone. They make the sickest bridge pickups out there I believe. But as stated previously, they are picky. You take a JB and it could sound like 5 different pickups in 5 different guitars. You have to spend some time with them to get them right. Duncans are something you want to read about before hand, you need to know the wood of the guitar, the neck and the fret board to really choose the right pickup. I'd say you can acheive anything with their pickups tone wise. They make some cool neck pickups, but so far the alnico pro II has been my favorite, though I have yet to try the PG in the neck :-(
Lastly...
EMG's- The holy grail of "metal" guitar players. They receive more flak than any other pickup out there I'd say. Personally, not my thing. I've owned all the humbucker models and two single coil models. Someone mentioned it before, but basically they were made at a time when distortion was light, so throwing a pre amp in the mix really got that extra kick. As we all know you don't need that anymore. I agree, they're relics and if it wasn't for the endorsement of people like ZW and Metallica they'd have gone under in the mid 90's. With that said they have their place, I don't think any other pickup makes sh1tty gear sound better. If you're playing on a cheaper guitar (quality wise) I'd recommend them, the "activeness" really can up a cheaper guitar. But IMHO you have a guitar over $500 and an amp the same you'd be better off without them. If you ARE going to use EMG's try them with the 9v, then do the 18v mod and I bet you'll love the tone more.
So in the end, it's really preference. If you find some no name brand of pickups that you absolutely love, stay with it. Don't let some celebrity or anonymous people tell you differently. It's all about your ear. So BAM, my longest post ever, and my love of pickups!

[jimijames]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

Im not saying that Gilmour isnt tatefull or that he is not fast enough. Im saying that he hasnt shown enough range of emotion or ability on guitar to be considered a great. He's pretty good.

Being in a legendary band and laying down some memorable solos is WAY differnt than being a great guitarist or musician.

Point me to some of his solo work that showcases his writing and playing and I'll reevaluate.

Well, what about Jimmy Page's solos? He was part of the yardbirds and led zeppelin, but solo work is much less memorable. What about Angus Young? He's played with AC/DC his entire life, but the guitar parts he wrote certainly did help to carry the song. Even (IMO of course) Eric Clapton's best work was with Cream, John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, Derek and the Dominos, etc. You can't judge a guitarist only by their solo work, yes David Gilmour may have benefited by playing with excellent musicians, but that doesn't mean he himself didn't contribute anything.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your last point. Legendary bands are usually legendary because all of the members are talented. The Beatles were a great example (with the exception of Ringo Starr, sorry Ringo but that's just how I feel). With the example of Pink Floyd, yes Roger Waters was a genius in the studio both as a musician and a songwriter, but in my eyes that in no way diminshes what Gilmour did for the band. I mean, if he hadn't done anything, wouldn't Roger Waters be a legendary songwriter, instead of just touring and playing the Wall and Dark Side of the moon, 40 years after the fact?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I don't think you have to evaluate a musician only by their solo work. David's solos from when he was in pink floyd are enough proof for me. If you don't feel the same way, that's fine, nobody says everybody has to agree on everything.

[ParameterMan]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

The original question was what we thought about "EMG vs Duncan vs DiMarzio" (sound familiar?). That would seem to invite opinions, as there doesn't seem to be an abundance of laboratory data available on this. As I said in an earlier post, I've tried EMG's and they don't work for my style of music, so the experience factor is there (you must have missed that as you got yourself worked up). As far as injecting my "personal preferences", how about walking the talk yourself? We all certainly benefited from the wisdom & insight expressed in your post (above).

Look, you're an intelligent guy, if you could tone down the emotion, you'd have more credibility. No need to get in people's faces and pick fights. No one's right all the time, and 95% of this forum is opinion. Take the opinons and preferences away, and there's no forum. It's all about what we like, and most of the time there's no way to quantify that. Usually comes down to taste, and no one is right or wrong.

Well, now. I'm not sure where you're getting all this emotion and worked-up-ness. I guess it's quite possible that my talking style doesn't translate well when typed out. And I'm also not sure where you're getting that I'm forcing my personal tastes on anyone, much less you. I was forcibly expressing my opinion, though, which was that the OP deserves an honest answer to his original question, and not another stupid active/passive religious war thread. Which post I'll now quote in it's entirety:

I've seen the notion on here several times recently that Dimarzios will sound more or less the same regardless of whether they are on a hubcap or a 59 LP, while SD's are more organic and will take on more of the characteristics of the wood.

Where do EMG's fit on this scale? How sensitive are they to, say, ash vs. alder on a tele?

Just thinking out loud...

And then, a couple posts later:

I kinda like EMG's, I've just never done a back to back with the same pickups in different guitars.

I'm kind of chasing a sound that I can't get out of my head that comes from a Tele with an EMG bridge. The tele has an ash body with flame maple top and maple neck. Just trying to get a feel to see how close I can get with, say, alder or solid ash instead of the ash with the maple top.

Thanks.

It seems plain to me that he is asking EMG users if they sound much the same in different guitars. He's also asking if it's possible to pursue this sound. He never asked any of us if, or how much we like different brands of pickups.

If someone asks "how well will this pickup translate to x" and you reply "I hate that brand", you haven't contributed anything but noise.

I'm not trying to single you out and pick a fight. The post you replied to was not directed at you, and this isn't meant only for you either. I hope you can read a little more credibility into my posts and take this as a plea for effective communication. I also apologize for allowing my annoyance to sound so contemptuous. I appreciate people who express their opinions in a way that doesn't demean other people, but I don't always do very well myself.

[super rad stuff]

Re: EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio

He never asked any of us if, or how much we like different brands of pickups.

If someone asks "how well will this pickup translate to x" and you reply "I hate that brand", you haven't contributed anything but noise.

though it's true that in the post it'self, he never asked how much we like/dislike different brands of pickups, the thread title does happen to be EMG vs Duncan vs Dimarzio, which can lead to this sort of discussion...

bigjoe, go get those tele EMGs if you think they will get you the tone you want.