Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

Any looking at what the OP wants, a lot of it seems to just contradict itself.

You want high gain, tight tones, but you're not willing to get at least an 100 watt amp?
You're not going to nail KSE tones with anything less than 100 watts, KSE tone comes from having amps with tons of headroom.

You want tube dynamics, but you want to play a fair bit in your bedroom?

Honestly, sell the Metalzone, keep the Cube for your bedroom because unless you buy a SUPER low wattage amp you're not going to get the proper tube feel in the bedroom (although AFAIK the ENGL Powerball is one of the few tube amps that genuinely sounds good at bedroom levels, but you can't afford that anyway).
And a super low wattage amp doesn't do modern metal anyway, so that's out of the equation.

Save up for a 5150 head and cab combination.
It will do EXACTLY what you want at jamming levels (with a drummer type jamming levels). End of Heartache uses 2 tracks of 5150 for the rhythm guitar FWIW.

If not, find a decent amp modeling solution that will do higher volume stuff than your Cube.

[FuseG4]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

.

You want tube dynamics, but you want to play a fair bit in your bedroom?

Tube dynamics is NOT only about full on power tube saturation.

Almost any decent tube amp can under 40W can hit the type of touch-sensitive edge-of-breakup dynamics tube lovers enjoy, without getting you kicked out of your house. The kind where you get just a hint of grit when you hit it hard... this is a magic spot for pedals because it'll add to the distortion pedal's dirt with it's own warmth and grit when you play harder. That's also the point where you can back off the guitar's volume and clean it up pretty well, even through many dirt pedals.

some solid state amps can kinda pull that off but generally they suck at it!

I don't really care what volume he's playing at, you don't have to crank a tube amp to get everything out of it. Some of the best stuff is up there but it's not everything.

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

Tube dynamics is NOT only about full on power tube saturation.

Almost any decent tube amp can under 40W can hit the type of touch-sensitive edge-of-breakup dynamics tube lovers enjoy, without getting you kicked out of your house. The kind where you get just a hint of grit when you hit it hard... this is a magic spot for pedals because it'll add to the distortion pedal's dirt with it's own warmth and grit when you play harder. That's also the point where you can back off the guitar's volume and clean it up pretty well, even through many dirt pedals.

some solid state amps can kinda pull that off but generally they suck at it!

I don't really care what volume he's playing at, you don't have to crank a tube amp to get everything out of it. Some of the best stuff is up there but it's not everything.

Yes but he wants to play KSE and Attack Attack. Not wanting
"grit when you hit it hard".
He wants balls out gain and presumably, a very clean clean that doesn't break up.

A low wattage amp does not have the necessary head room to cover those styles of playing.
There is reason why modern metal bands and metal producers/engineers almost always use amps with at least 100 watts, because anything less will typically not feel and sound good for the style.

And the whole point of modern high gain tube amps is they don't need to be turned up to 10 anyway.
They actually sound like crap on full master volume.
Again, it comes back to the headroom thing, and 40 watts wont cut it

[FrankyBoy]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

He wants balls out gain and presumably, a very clean clean that doesn't break up.

In facts, I am looking for a little bit of break-up. I'm looking for the tube feel, cause when I play the roland, the clean never breaks-up (volume of the amp doesn't affect anything) and I don't quite like this.

P.S. I don't like the metalzone. Sounds thin, trebly, the only setting I like is with an "overdrive" setting, so I'm not even using it that much.

[FuseG4]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

have you ever played a marshall haze? the 40 W combo, not the head.

It's a decent classic rock amp, and not a good metal amp on it's own, as the gain channel is too loose in the lows. But a good pedal in front of it will give you some good gain and tighten things up. The el34s tubes naturally put out enough power to make whatever you put in front of it sound huge. From there, you may want to think about the guitar. Maybe a 25" scale with an a8 humbucker. If you can't get some kind of decent metal tone from that I'd be surprised.

That amp gets slammed on for not sounding like marshalls from days of yore but if you approach it unbiased it does have tone to offer.

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

HA HA HA HA!

For those who don't know... Attack Attack! is known for crabcore...

[FuseG4]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

^ yeah I had to look those guys up when i saw that, so that I could see that in context.

I uh... won't be looking up any more of their stuff now.

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

Embarrassingly enough, I own the album that that music video (and the resultant hilarious gif) are from.

I was making stir fry one night, and a song came up on Pandora that went from crunk to metal to girlpants to techno, and I flipped 'em a ten-spot and bought the album just because I thought they deserved a pat on the back for either seamlessly integrating 4 disparate musical styles, or alternately (and much more likely), shamelessly gimmicking their way into the limelight.

Anyhow, yep - I have that CD. Sitting in my truck console next to Bill Frisell, John Mayer, Works Progress Administration, and Tommy Emmanuel.

Seems almost sacrilegous.

P.S. I just remembered I even wrote it up on TLA. Read that for a laugh.

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

In facts, I am looking for a little bit of break-up. I'm looking for the tube feel, cause when I play the roland, the clean never breaks-up (volume of the amp doesn't affect anything) and I don't quite like this.

P.S. I don't like the metalzone. Sounds thin, trebly, the only setting I like is with an "overdrive" setting, so I'm not even using it that much.

A used 50watt JCM800 with 6550's is what you really want but don't know it yet. Save up. Perhaps install a FX loop. These amps respond well to the right pedals and good pre-amps for more gain, and they got the beef and the tube tone. Keep the Cube too, their great for what their for.

The JCM-800 4010 is the 1x12 combo version of the 2204 head. The 4104 is the 2x12 version. But you may want a closed back cab for the stuff your into. A head and a closed back cab with the speaker(s) best suited for it and your misic styles may meet you needs better.

[Gamera]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

your gonna have to sacrifice in one direction or the other. rock or metal. cause if you get a razor sharp attack amp for extreme metal, its not gonna sound like a rock amp. and vice versa. just the fundamentals.

just sayin'

Yes and no. The Genz Benz actually can do this fairly well thanks to the tube contour knob (I think that's what it's called, I'm not in front of it now.) Unfortunately there are no demos on their site to showcase the classic gain side of the El Diablo which is quite nice and a little similar to the Black Pearl demo linked above.

The El Diablo does have a lot of nice features and is very versatile. If you have a chance to play one, make sure you do so. It may not be for everyone, especially if you have a preconceived tone in your head before buying. I've owned one for a couple years and there are days I love it and days I hate it. It has a big, fat, thick, warm base tone. And thanks to the controls you can tweak that tone in a number of different ways for different applications. Make sure you like that base tone though as you'll never be able to escape it.

[Tom Huff]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

Yes and no. The Genz Benz actually can do this fairly well thanks to the tube contour knob (I think that's what it's called, I'm not in front of it now.) Unfortunately there are no demos on their site to showcase the classic gain side of the El Diablo which is quite nice and a little similar to the Black Pearl demo linked above.

The El Diablo does have a lot of nice features and is very versatile. If you have a chance to play one, make sure you do so. It may not be for everyone, especially if you have a preconceived tone in your head before buying. I've owned one for a couple years and there are days I love it and days I hate it. It has a big, fat, thick, warm base tone. And thanks to the controls you can tweak that tone in a number of different ways for different applications. Make sure you like that base tone though as you'll never be able to escape it.

I think the thing about the El Diablo 60 is that it is so variable/adjustable/tweak-able tone wise that people give it a chance at a store and don't in a couple minutes dial in the amp to the sound that they thought they were going to get and determine that the El Diablo sounds wrong and hence they bash it as an expert on the internet...

[Iron Horse]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

Hughes & Kettner Edition Tube is worth checking out.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

Bugera V22, $349.

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

have you ever played a marshall haze? the 40 W combo, not the head.

It's a decent classic rock amp, and not a good metal amp on it's own, as the gain channel is too loose in the lows. But a good pedal in front of it will give you some good gain and tighten things up. The el34s tubes naturally put out enough power to make whatever you put in front of it sound huge. From there, you may want to think about the guitar. Maybe a 25" scale with an a8 humbucker. If you can't get some kind of decent metal tone from that I'd be surprised.

That amp gets slammed on for not sounding like marshalls from days of yore but if you approach it unbiased it does have tone to offer.

Marshall have pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of what the OP wants
5150s and Dual Rectos have a bit of a somewhat loose lower mid range happening which is exactly the type of the thing the OP is after and isn't really achievable with Marshall.
That's not to say Marshalls suck or anything, I'm a big fan of a few Marshall tones (Tom Morello, the latest Scar Symmetry album) but they aren't voiced for KSE and Attack Attack style stuff

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal

And holy crap.....that's what I didn't think of earlier.
If the OP can't afford a 5150 head and cab, then a Bugera head and cab would be affordable.
A Bugera 333XL on the used market, with a used cab will easily be in his budget.
Throw on an attenuator and it's EXACTLY what he's after in terms of tonality and versatility.
You HAVE to make sure you buy a Bugera made after 2009.
Anything made before 2009 has reliability issues most likely, but those were fixed during 09 and now many owners are happy with them.