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Thread: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

  1. #21
    Kablamminator ratherdashing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

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  2. #22
    Toneologist Grindspine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    If the open string G is tuned a touch sharp with a standard nut, the rest of the notes on that string would fall closer to being in tune. So, if you tune the notes open with the Earvana having the G string break point a little further out, the rest of the notes on that string fall into place. The change in the nut affects the tuning down the entire string.

  3. #23
    Kablamminator ratherdashing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grindspine View Post
    If the open string G is tuned a touch sharp with a standard nut, the rest of the notes on that string would fall closer to being in tune. So, if you tune the notes open with the Earvana having the G string break point a little further out, the rest of the notes on that string fall into place. The change in the nut affects the tuning down the entire string.
    Right, I think I'm starting to understand now.

    - If I tune the G string to G, the other notes won't be in tune

    - If I tune the G slightly sharp, the other notes will be closer to being in tune, but the open G will be sharp of course

    - If I compensate for this by moving the saddle closer to the nut, I can get the 12th fret G (or whichever other fret I choose) to be in tune, but this doesn't help any of the other fretted notes

    - If I move the nut closer to the bridge and tune the string to G, I get the open string in tune and (most of) the other frets in tune

    Do I have that right?

    If so, that's cool, but a compensated nut is still unable to account for string gauge or non-standard tunings (unless you get a nut compensated for those specific things). You'll also be out of tune with other fretted instruments in your band, unless they also have compensated nuts.

  4. #24
    Bacteriaolgoist GuitarDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by ratherdashing View Post
    Ok, so if I understand correctly, you're saying that the compensated nut improves the intonation of a string relative to the other strings.

    I guess the part I still don't understand is: why can't this be accomplished by setting the string length at the saddle? And what effect does the compensated nut have on non-open strings?

    Sorry if I seem dense, but in my mind, once I fret a note the nut is out of the equation (as far as intonation is concerned, at least).

    Exactly. Once you fret a note the nut IS out of the equation, but not the saddle. When the nut is adjusted, the saddle also has to be adjusted, to keep the string intonated...in tune at the twelfth fret, and now the saddle IS in the equation. The saddle affects the tuning of the individual strings while fretting throughout the neck.

    Let's look at it in reverse...

    First tune your guitar with the open strings. Now play an "A Maj" barr chord at the 5th fret. Not quite in tune. But you can adjust the saddles so that the barr "A" is perfectly in tune. Great! Your guitar is perfectly in tune...if all you ever do is play a barr "A Maj" chord. But now play an open "G Maj" chord. Wow!! Not so good sounding. If your guitar had "saddles" at the nut instead of a straight piece of bone (or plastic), you could adjust each individual string at the nut so that now your open strings would also be in tune (of course this would also affect the tuning on the barr "A" and require a slight adjustment at the bridge saddles which would also require another slight adjustment at the nut saddles, etc. Sort of similar to the process of tuning a tremelo equipped guitar going back and forth between strings until all the strings are in tune).

    Finally you would have your guitar perfectly in tune for a barr "A Maj" chord and for an open "G Maj" chord. Now if you look at the "nut saddles" you would see that their possitions look similar to those of an Earvana nut.

    (So you can think of the nut as adjusting the tuning of open strings, and the bridge as adjusting the tuning of fretted strings. Of course they both work together, one affects the other.)

    You could do this same thing at all the most frequently played fret positions on the neck and you could establish an average compensated nut with its corresponding bridge saddle positions. This process I have described is a back-and-forth trial and error process. Companies like Earvana have gotten similar results, but more directly by using mathematical calculations instead.
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  5. #25
    Funkfingers
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    In my opinion, compensated nuts make a perceivable, if small improvement. How much this matter bothers people is subjective.

    The usual cliche to drag out here is the one about trying to keep a guitar in tune with a piano. The problems are manifold. Guitar pitches are calculated by a Pythagorean formula. Pianos are intentionally tuned to a slightly extended scale. Never the twain shall meet UNLESS you play slide. (Imagine that. Slide piano!)

    My first decent electric guitar was a three saddle Telecaster copy. I learned to bend strings to put the instrument in tune.

  6. #26
    Bacteriaolgoist GuitarDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Pretty tough to bend a string to get it in tune if it is sharp to begin with, however.
    Originally Posted by IanBallard
    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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    Mojo's Minions KeeperOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by ratherdashing View Post
    ...but a compensated nut is still unable to account for string gauge or non-standard tunings (unless you get a nut compensated for those specific things). You'll also be out of tune with other fretted instruments in your band, unless they also have compensated nuts.
    That's the two shortcomings of compensated nuts, by becoming more "in-tune" relative to a, say, piano, you become equally more "out-of-tune" relative to other stringed instruments without the compensation that use the same tuning as you.
    Also, since this is a compensation as already mentioned, it is meant to work for a specific tuning so if you change said tuning to sth else (say drop D or whatever) then you move further away from the compensation achieved with the nut.

    Whether that's for better or for worse compared to a straight nut depends solely on the tuning you're changing to.

    I have never heard a mention of the compensation being broken by switching from 9s to 10s, I am not sure if the change is significant enough to alter the accuracy of the results. Perhaps GuitarDoc could help on that....
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  8. #28
    Mojo's Minions Rockstar216's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Im not sure if the Earvana nut works and how well but what I will say is that you can go nuts over trying to get the PERFECT tuning because their is always a compromise with the guitar or any other string instrument. For me the best way i've gotten results is from after reading the true temperament site of how to tune a guitar by using the note a on every string. For me their are 2 intonation spots the fretted and harmonic on the 12 fret and the A note on every string below the 12th fret. Once I get the 12 fret right then I make sure to get the A as well. So far every string even up past the 12th fret seem to be in tune for someone without perfect pitch. Only string that still is a lil off is the G string but I expect and accept that and in a live band situation it won't matter if its a couple cents off. Also take into account that when playing the guitar due to how every player holds theirs at a different angle gravity affects pitch along with our fretting technique which I doubt anybody here has a PERFECT fretting technique because even our fingers hit the strings at a certain angle thats not perfect.
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  9. #29
    Toneologist Grindspine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by ratherdashing View Post
    Right, I think I'm starting to understand now.

    - If I tune the G string to G, the other notes won't be in tune

    - If I tune the G slightly sharp, the other notes will be closer to being in tune, but the open G will be sharp of course

    - If I compensate for this by moving the saddle closer to the nut, I can get the 12th fret G (or whichever other fret I choose) to be in tune, but this doesn't help any of the other fretted notes

    - If I move the nut closer to the bridge and tune the string to G, I get the open string in tune and (most of) the other frets in tune

    Do I have that right?

    If so, that's cool, but a compensated nut is still unable to account for string gauge or non-standard tunings (unless you get a nut compensated for those specific things). You'll also be out of tune with other fretted instruments in your band, unless they also have compensated nuts.
    Yeah, you have that right. That is the way I understand the function of the compensated nut.

    Of course, I was using the G string as an example assuming it is a six string guitar set up with standard tuning with a plain (unwound) G. Heavier string gauges with a wound G would have the B string (the lowest tuned plain string) as the string to set the break point of the nut slightly closer to the bridge. G was just the boldest example where it seems to make the biggest difference.

    The True Temperment fret system does something similar, but the individual frets are shaped in a way that improves the intonation, while the nut is still straight. The compensated nut is not perfect, but is a nice balance for those with standard frets who cannot stand a few notes being 5 or 6 cents off pitch.

  10. #30
    Bacteriaolgoist GuitarDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Like I said, they're all just a compromise. Flat nuts work fine for most people, I prefer compensated nuts, they work better for my playing and hearing.
    Originally Posted by IanBallard
    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    An old thread, but considering the discussion,

    Check out the True Temperament necks:
    https://www.truetemperament.com/

  12. #32
    Super Toneologist Jack_TriPpEr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Like the last poster, I know this is an old thread, but... I am wondering if there are any other compensated nuts on the market that I should consider besides Earvana? Or Earvana is still 1st choice? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    I think the last poster just came here to spam us. That's an odd 1st post.
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    A Zero Glide nut serves the same purpose, is easier to install, plus you get the added tuning stability of a zero fret.
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    Mojo's Minions LLL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Or you can do things the easy way and get a Peterson strobe tuner with their "Sweetened" tuning presets.
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    Toneologist Seraphial's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    One small thing from my personal experience with Earvana, I liked it but I did encounter one small issue when I installed a Gibson version - it felt quite high and sometimes, when playing bar chords or changing positions, the compensated bits of the nut would catch my hand/pointer finger ever so slightly. Enough for me to notice. I weighed up whether to do the same things to my strats, but ended up going with a professionally installed bone nut instead.
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  17. #37
    Super Toneologist Jack_TriPpEr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphial View Post
    One small thing from my personal experience with Earvana, I liked it but I did encounter one small issue when I installed a Gibson version - it felt quite high and sometimes, when playing bar chords or changing positions, the compensated bits of the nut would catch my hand/pointer finger ever so slightly. Enough for me to notice. I weighed up whether to do the same things to my strats, but ended up going with a professionally installed bone nut instead.
    That's valuable feedback - thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  18. #38
    Super Toneologist Jack_TriPpEr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by LLL View Post
    Or you can do things the easy way and get a Peterson strobe tuner with their "Sweetened" tuning presets.
    Sounds like an interesting option. I will check it out. Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

  19. #39
    Super Toneologist Jack_TriPpEr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warmoth Earvana nut slots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chistopher View Post
    A Zero Glide nut serves the same purpose, is easier to install, plus you get the added tuning stability of a zero fret.
    Yet another interesting option I wasn't aware existed. I will check it out. Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarDoc View Post
    Good diagram Shadowfire90, but it isn't what the OP wants.

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