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Thread: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

  1. #21
    Riffologist Extraordinaire ex-250's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    A jazz is more capable of doing everything. A P just does everything I want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
    It was the age of suave. Men were men, and women were smacked and thrown on the bed and loved it.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTalon View Post
    No,

    And no. They are great basses, no doubt, but tonal flexibility is not their strong suit.
    A P-Bass is seriously flexible. History shows this. Although, that was never mentioned. It covers all classic tones from punk to funk...very well. Its the epitome of 'Zen' for bass which is what the request was for.


    is ridiculous. You LOLed at me? I'm LOLing back.
    Hey bro, there is no flame here. I dont 'LOL' anybody. I have never, in any post here ever. I ' LOL' my contrast to your statement. Typical on a forum is to have someone adamantly recommend something from a auto-biographical standpoint and someone else completely disagree. That is this case. It irony at its best.

    My Ibanez 305 is probably the single most tonally flexible bass I own, apart from a couple of custom basses with three pickups. What's ironic is that you are recommending against soapbar basses because they can't get classic tones well (which I disagree with), while recommending a bass that gets exactly ONE classic tone well! (Different styles of music do not count as different tones.)
    Again, different strokes and experiences. Playing bass professionally as a touring bassist and session bassist has a real-life perspective that is valid and a part of my response. As for the soapbars, I understand exactly what/why/when how they sound as a fundamental. I know how they are made and the tonal intents in their design. My years working for Seymour Duncan provided me a genuine perspective on pickup choices and recommendations. I was also hired to create the Tone Wizard. It doesn't make me right at all but my 'opinion' does come from genuine experience. In other words it is not ridiculous. With respect to that, I personally wouldn't recommend the Ibanez you mentioned as the most 'Zen' bass or most appropriate in this situation. It works for you, but not for me. We both have valid input. Its all good. There certainly is on disrespect here.

    P-bass or P-J 100%. = Zen.

    Cheers!

  3. #23

    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    There certainly is (on) disrespect here.

    Cheers!
    Typo... on = no

  4. #24
    Ultimate Tone Member FAC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    P bass necks are somewhat gigantic, especially as one goes up the scale. Hence, for a guitarist, I would recommend a Jazz Bass...the neck is a lot thinner and will feel a bit more familiar to a guitarist. If it were me, I would get a used MIM Jazz Bass. Personally, I am not a fan of the short scale basses, but I can see how they might work better for a guitarist.
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  5. #25
    A Ficus ehdwuld's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    ibby
    friend of mine got a used SR300 with duncan upgraded pickups
    and a case used from GC for $99 and shipping

    neck is thinner than my guitar

    light, and easy to play

    a workhorse bass
    EHD
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    Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
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  6. #26
    Shaunofthedeadologist Johnny the Kid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Honestly, I know I suggested a bunch of different things, but your best bet is to go to the store and try out as many different basses as you can. Only then will you be able to truly know what you are after. If what you like is a Pbass, then get it. If you like an Epi Thnderbird, get it. Only you can decide what sounds good to you.
    Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
    Hagstrom Hj800 Jazzbox stock pickups
    Fender Jazz Bass EMG MJ Set
    Music Man SUB Ray5 stock pickups
    Line 6 Helix
    Dunlop Strings and Picks

    The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

  7. #27
    Ultimate Tone Slacker Falloffthebonetone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Pj will not do you wrong. Get one with a jazz neck, fac is totally right. A tribute g&l sb-2 will do it. But it might be too expensive.

  8. #28
    Ultimate Tone Member BlueTalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Quote Originally Posted by ex-250 View Post
    A jazz is more capable of doing everything. A P just does everything I want.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    A P-Bass is seriously flexible. History shows this. Although, that was never mentioned. It covers all classic tones from punk to funk...very well. Its the epitome of 'Zen' for bass which is what the request was for.
    I think you and I might have different working definitions of certain words here. I agree that the P-bass is flexible, in that it can cover all the classic applications "from punk to funk", but it does that with a limited range of tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    Hey bro, there is no flame here. I dont 'LOL' anybody. I have never, in any post here ever. I ' LOL' my contrast to your statement. Typical on a forum is to have someone adamantly recommend something from a auto-biographical standpoint and someone else completely disagree. That is this case. It irony at its best.
    It's all good. I didn't think you were being derisive or condescending, and I'm not angry or anything. We just disagree. It's cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    Again, different strokes and experiences. Playing bass professionally as a touring bassist and session bassist has a real-life perspective that is valid and a part of my response. As for the soapbars, I understand exactly what/why/when how they sound as a fundamental. I know how they are made and the tonal intents in their design. My years working for Seymour Duncan provided me a genuine perspective on pickup choices and recommendations. I was also hired to create the Tone Wizard. It doesn't make me right at all but my 'opinion' does come from genuine experience. In other words it is not ridiculous. With respect to that, I personally wouldn't recommend the Ibanez you mentioned as the most 'Zen' bass or most appropriate in this situation. It works for you, but not for me. We both have valid input. Its all good. There certainly is no disrespect here.

    P-bass or P-J 100%. = Zen.

    Cheers!
    The problem with P-J basses, especially inexpensive ones, is that they usually couple a single coil J pickup with the humbucking P pickup. With a Jazz bass, with two oppositely wound single coil J pickups, there is at least a fighting chance of getting a good clean tone. Getting a good clean sound out of a P-J is a lot more problematic -- unless you want to go to the trouble of replacing the J pickup with a stack or split-coil. The OP is already counting his pennies, so he's not going to want to spend an extra $70 right out of the gate.

    I should probably point out that I consider the unwanted output of a pickup to be just as much a part of the tone as the intended output. My best friend plays guitar, and he has a strat that drives me nuts. He calls the noise "the price of good tone." I couldn't disagree more. I have split-coil humbucking J pickups on my Warmoth build, and they sound absolutely stunning, with no noise at all.

    I would have loved to have had a job with Seymour Duncan. Honestly, though, knowing you have that as part of your background makes some of your comments even more confusing than they already are. If we talk about P pickups or J pickups, there is quite a variety in models available, construction techniques, etc. You couldn't really say anything definitive about P's or J's like "I understand exactly what/why/when how they sound as a fundamental, I know how they are made and the tonal intents in their design" because there are so many different designs represented by each type of pickup. I don't see how soapbars are any different in that regard.

    My perspective is fueled by playing bass for 35 years and owning a couple dozen different basses. I'll never match your resume. Nevertheless, based on the stated criteria in the OP (flexible do-everything bass for cheap) and my experience owning and playing basses (including a Precision and a SR305), I feel far more comfortable recommending a SR305 than I would recommending a Precision.

  9. #29
    Funkfingers
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    I am surprised that, knowing Aceman's Gibson leanings, nobody has suggested an Epiphone Thunderbird, Vee or Explorer bass.

    Gonna stir things up a little now.

    The Precision Bass is a fine tool for knockin' out the low stuff. The Jazz Bass is a more articulate instrument in almost every way. Ironically, the one thing at which it is not so good is the P sound. Something about a long single coil versus two stubby ones. On paper, a PJ layout is a workable compromise. In reality, the P pickup almost always predominates. (Fine, if P Bass with a little bit of variation is what you desire.) As DrNewcenstein has already pointed out, the special J Bass honk only happens properly with two J pickups.

    IMO, on a passive bass guitar, two pickups is usually better than one. With onboard active EQ, the number of pickups is less critical. Once the pickups and EQ are active, almost anything is possible.

    For a time, one of my Seymourised Yamaha Attitude Plus basses had an Active EQ "switch" P pickup and a stacked knob treble/bass active EQ. With the right combination of settings, that bass could clank like a Rickenbacker 4001.

  10. #30
    firstlessonologist guitfiddle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    The Peavey T-40 covers much ground with it's spin-to-split pickups. Below 7 on the tone control the humbucker sound turns into single coil sound. Can be had cheap, but they're kind of heavy.
    - Tom

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  11. #31

    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTalon View Post
    Fair enough.


    I think you and I might have different working definitions of certain words here. I agree that the P-bass is flexible, in that it can cover all the classic applications "from punk to funk", but it does that with a limited range of tone.


    It's all good. I didn't think you were being derisive or condescending, and I'm not angry or anything. We just disagree. It's cool.


    The problem with P-J basses, especially inexpensive ones, is that they usually couple a single coil J pickup with the humbucking P pickup. With a Jazz bass, with two oppositely wound single coil J pickups, there is at least a fighting chance of getting a good clean tone. Getting a good clean sound out of a P-J is a lot more problematic -- unless you want to go to the trouble of replacing the J pickup with a stack or split-coil. The OP is already counting his pennies, so he's not going to want to spend an extra $70 right out of the gate.

    I should probably point out that I consider the unwanted output of a pickup to be just as much a part of the tone as the intended output. My best friend plays guitar, and he has a strat that drives me nuts. He calls the noise "the price of good tone." I couldn't disagree more. I have split-coil humbucking J pickups on my Warmoth build, and they sound absolutely stunning, with no noise at all.

    I would have loved to have had a job with Seymour Duncan. Honestly, though, knowing you have that as part of your background makes some of your comments even more confusing than they already are. If we talk about P pickups or J pickups, there is quite a variety in models available, construction techniques, etc. You couldn't really say anything definitive about P's or J's like "I understand exactly what/why/when how they sound as a fundamental, I know how they are made and the tonal intents in their design" because there are so many different designs represented by each type of pickup. I don't see how soapbars are any different in that regard.

    My perspective is fueled by playing bass for 35 years and owning a couple dozen different basses. I'll never match your resume. Nevertheless, based on the stated criteria in the OP (flexible do-everything bass for cheap) and my experience owning and playing basses (including a Precision and a SR305), I feel far more comfortable recommending a SR305 than I would recommending a Precision.
    Blue Talon. Its all good. Its easy to clarify.

    As for P or J pickups, (Speaking in passive terms) there is little variation in construction, design and string response across different manufactures save for magnet type/strength/stack or no stack. Sure voicing changes with those differences (subtitles change) based on wind pattern, wire gauge etc. but the INTENT of P bass and J bass pickups are generally some variation of vintage classic voiced, hotter or weaker. This is true of all the 'major players' Sadowksy, Lakland, Fender etc and boutique builders and pickup makers. It is just a re-hashing of the same design. LOL .I am sorry you have had challenges getting a good 'clean' sound from a P-J or J-J? That doesn't equate to any history I am aware of and certainly is not my experience. 'Clean' may mean something else to you. P basses are quiet and J-Bass are unnoticeable with a basic setup. P-Js have slightly different spacing for the P in many cases, but it is still versatile.

    There are never hard/fast rules. The Ibanez is a budget minded bass with 'active' circuitry although the pickups are passive. That in itself is fine. If you take the covers off of those pickups chances are they will be J bass style pickups. The reason it may seem more 'flexible' is because the bass has a built in active EQ. That low-cost active circuitry comes with a price. Soapbars basses in general are designed for a more 'hi-fi sound, a broader top end and low end with built in slap contours (mid cut) etc. 'Soapbar' basses often use active pickups. These are lower wind, lower output, lower impedance with built - in boost circuity. That type of wind pattern changes response. You see 'jazz'/fusion' solo bassists and musicians and 'aggressive' metal players use these often because the width of tonal variation is available and they cover 5-6-7 string instruments. 'Underneath' the covers of soapbars are J-bass or p-bass style pickup designs often. What is generally 'not' there, by design default is the classic fundamental tones that come from passive pickups. But professionals who choose those basses do so intentionally to meet different needs. Also they will switch basses and won't use a soapbar bass to get 'classic R and R tones in many cases. Most I know have many many basses.

    'Flexible' is a misleading word and as I said in my original post it does not equate to great fundamental each time. Active soaps or passive/active circuitry ARE capable of many tones, but there are some tones they can just not cover in the same manner.

    Passive always my go-to int he studio for classic tones but honestly from a production standpoint, I just like bass.

    My recent basses:

    2012 Sadowsky Metro J-bass MS-5 (Active/Passive)
    2006 Lakland 5502 (Active)
    Yamaha John Myuang 6 (Active)
    1984 Squier P-Bass (Passive)
    1996 Music Man 5 (Active/Passive)
    2nd generation Peavey TL-5 (Active)
    Yamaha 425X (Passive) This is my main recording bass.

    Previous basses: (Way too many to list!) but I can post studio pics.

    Since I focus on guitar now, I do less bass work. Still I do a great deal of bass 'whoring' LOL selling/trading/buying on Talk Bass and with other locals here.
    My response to brother Aceman came for knowing his rock and roll style and from thinking about 'fundamental' tones.
    Again, a P-bass just 'gets' it. In a mix in the studio, in a band situation live, it will always fill the fundamental tonal spectrum and sit in the mix well leaving room for the other instruments.
    It can be bright, clear, punchy, growly sweet. Everything I look for in a bass tone.

    List of notable Fender PBass players : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_Bass_players (The J-list is 1/3 the size...LOL!)

    I'm out. Cheers and much respect bro.

    EDIT: Here are a few basses I have.
    Last edited by Rodney Gene; 06-04-2013 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Massive Spelling/ Dyskexic!

  12. #32

    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Last thought:

    At the end of the day, all of these perspectives are valid and none are complete.
    This is just information and experiences and then dialogues about that information and experience.

    There is no right answer and there is no permanent answer. We are creative musicians with vast tonal/color expressions and we are awesome.

    Cheers!!

  13. #33
    my banana hammock hosts a leetle peppercini and has hit the skids Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    In priority I'd like to perhaps record some bass lines. Don't really know what pup gives what tone.

    But I know i might musically ramble from a cool blues line, to straight 8 metal.

    But again - I just need to make bass notes. So less is less, and flexibility is more.
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  14. #34
    Shaunofthedeadologist Johnny the Kid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Once again. bass players are much more tone purists than guitar players. Just go to a store and play every different kind of bass that you can with a blindfold on. The one you like the most is the one you should get.
    Schecter ATX Blackjack C7 BKP Painkiller (B) and Abraxas (N)
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    The opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect normal levels of sanity.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Quote Originally Posted by guitfiddle View Post
    The Peavey T-40 covers much ground with it's spin-to-split pickups. Below 7 on the tone control the humbucker sound turns into single coil sound. Can be had cheap, but they're kind of heavy.
    ^^ This..^^ The "Poor Mans Ricky". Possibly the most versatile passive bass ever made as a production bass. And very usable sounds, nice neck. Just a bit hard to find and yes heavy. A classic amongst bassists. Price is rising to the $450+ now here in Texas.

  16. #36
    Gear Ho Gearjoneser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    OLP MusicMan copies are a good way to get the MM sound in a VERY inexpensive bass. With a good setup, some of the OLP's aren't bad at all. Way cheap too!

    https://www.google.com/search?q=olp+...w=1280&bih=628
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  17. #37
    Li'l Junior Member MetalManiac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    T-40? Oh GOD no! Oak is for a foreplaces, not a Bass., but the thing looks and plays like a butcher block table with strings. Tone is adequate, but nothing but trouble with all Peavey necks from my exeperience, the action is a mile high and the truss rod is tweaked on everyone Ive ever had, and ve had plenty of T40's/20's and T-60 guitars, all the same, there was a problem with the truss rod design
    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  18. #38

    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalManiac View Post
    T-40? Oh GOD no! Oak is for a foreplaces, not a Bass., but the thing looks and plays like a butcher block table with strings. Tone is adequate, but nothing but trouble with all Peavey necks from my exeperience, the action is a mile high and the truss rod is tweaked on everyone Ive ever had, and ve had plenty of T40's/20's and T-60 guitars, all the same, there was a problem with the truss rod design
    LOL!

    There were never any OAK T-40s. All of them were Northern Ash, even the painted ones. Somehow the 'oak' thing became an internet rumor. Truss issues were likely from people using the wrong torsion wrench on the T-40. Peavey supplied the right one as it was unique. Necks were great on those basses but you had to adjust the neck tilt feature in conjunction when adjusting the action/saddles. Low and fast if you set them up that way. Its like anything else, they need the proper care and Peavey equipped those bassesd with advanced setup features that few understood. Great sound though. Tomatoes and Tomottos. Cheers!

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    If you're recording DI or don't need/want an amp... the Sansamp's the way to go over a POD, TRUST me!!

    For bass, depending on your budget, I've found I'd take home a $200 Squire over a $700 Fender in most cases when dinking around at a music shop... Unless you're REALLY into it and wanna get some miles out of it, you don't have to drop a fortune. Ibanez makes some decent budget basses if that's what you're into... I'd say check those out to start with.

  20. #40
    Sausage Gravy LReese's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bass Guys - A question from a guitar player

    Lurk around on this guys channel and you find some demos of various basses - At the very least he's a riot! Well worth a little time.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/davey4557

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