Swiss Army-Bass

[PFDarkside]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I would just get a Fender style (choose P or J neck and P or J body) with either:
-P/J with a Series/Parallel on the P
-J/J with slightly hotter Js (Like Duncan Customs or Quarter Pounders) with a Series/Parallel switch

With a decent preamp that would get me everything I need for home recording.

[BlueTalon]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

The problem with P/J bass, at least those by Fender, is that with two exceptions, they match a single coil J pickup with a "split-single-coil" humbucking P pickup. The exceptions (American Deluxe Standard Precision and Duff McKagan Signature Jazz) use humbucking J pickups.

There isn't a sound or tone produced by a P/J bass that (A) I can't get in another bass, and (B) is worth dealing with any amount of noise. I have a zero tolerance for noise. For me, good tone + noise = bad tone. I can't separate them.

That, along with my good experiences with other basses like my Ibanez SR305, Peavey Grind, BC Rich Mockingbird, Epiphone Thunderbird, Waterstone Skelly, and others, are what color my opinions.

[0v3nm4n]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

The problem with P/J bass, at least those by Fender, is that with two exceptions, they match a single coil J pickup with a "split-single-coil" humbucking P pickup. The exceptions (American Deluxe Standard Precision and Duff McKagan Signature Jazz) use humbucking J pickups.

There isn't a sound or tone produced by a P/J bass that (A) I can't get in another bass, and (B) is worth dealing with any amount of noise. I have a zero tolerance for noise. For me, good tone + noise = bad tone. I can't separate them.

That, along with my good experiences with other basses like my Ibanez SR305, Peavey Grind, BC Rich Mockingbird, Epiphone Thunderbird, Waterstone Skelly, and others, are what color my opinions.

I take it you're a soapbar guy

[BlueTalon]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I'm a whatever guy. I have basses with J pickups, P pickups, MM pickups, and soapbars. I really honestly don't care what the pickup looks like or how it's configured if I get a good sound with no unwanted noise. That's the kicker.

You want a bass that is tonally flexible -- I believe that requires more than one pickup. Obviously, any combination of well designed, properly installed and working properly humbucking pickups will provide a variety of tones with no unwanted noise. A typical P bass has a single "split single coil" pickup that is designed to cancel hum and give a clean signal -- good, but not tonally flexible. A typical Jazz bass has two single coil pickups that do a pretty good job of eliminating noise when used together. However, most typical P/J basses mate up one single coil J pickup with a split single coil humbucking P pickup. My problem with that arrangement isn't the style of pickup, it's the noise.

Put a humbucking/stacked/split-coil J pickup in with the P pickup in place of the single coil J pickup, and I'm fine with it.

Again, let me point out that I personally can't stand hum/noise. Some people are ok with it, and say the noise doesn't matter once you're playing.

You might find this interesting. It's a P/P/J, not a P/J, but it should demonstrate that I'm not anti-P/J. The J is stacked.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

bartolini make a great J/J pickup set. Both are actually split/humcancelling p bass style pickups inside a j bass footprint. Great sounding pups.

[uOpt]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

can a J bass mimic a P bass? I know the P pickups have that off set setup, but i wanted to know if the magnetic field if the J pup could come close to a P sound.

No, and even if they did you would get screwed by the pickup position.

Pickup position really matter. Guitarists sometimes forget since we have useful default positions that fit almost all pickups.

[BlueTalon]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

bartolini make a great J/J pickup set. Both are actually split/humcancelling p bass style pickups inside a j bass footprint. Great sounding pups.

You mean in-line split-coils J pickups. Those are made by numerous companies -- Bartolini, Delano, Fralin, Nordstrand, Fender, and probably a lot more. My first experience with them is a set of Fender pickups, and I absolutely love them. (I also have a Bartolini, but it hasn't been swapped into anything yet.)

[0v3nm4n]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I can't stand noise at all. what about those fender aerodyne basses? they make a left handed P/J model that I could probably drop stacks into

[ginormous]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I can't stand noise at all. what about those fender aerodyne basses? they make a left handed P/J model that I could probably drop stacks into

There's gonna be noise in any passive setup; one can get a hot set of pickups, shield the wire harness and control cavity for RFI and hum, boost with a preamp and hope for the best.

Actives are another animal entirely; I defer to those with more experience.

I've only played the Aerodynes once or twice; the factory pups didn't impress me. The neck pickup didn't sound enough like a "real" Precision for me, and likewise for the bridge J. A swap would be my first move.

[BlueTalon]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

There's gonna be noise in any passive setup; one can get a hot set of pickups, shield the wire harness and control cavity for RFI and hum, boost with a preamp and hope for the best.

Actives are another animal entirely; I defer to those with more experience.

This makes no sense at all to me. There is going to be noise in any passive setup (which I strongly disagree with), so among other things add a preamp? And you defer to those with more experience re: actives? You just told him to make it active!

There is going to be noise in any passive setup? Meaning every passive setup? No. I agree with you about the shielding, but a good passive humbucking pickup or set of pickups will not add noise. Most of my basses are passive and have no noise issues. As a matter of fact, the only basses I ever have noise issues with have preamps on them.


Maybe you forgot to add "single coil" in your post? That would make more sense to me.

[uOpt]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

There's gonna be noise in any passive setup;

Wat?

[0v3nm4n]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I do like the sound of a passive bass boosted with an on-board pre. The meaty sound it produces is something that always gives me an E-chord face.

there's also this

http://www.ilitchelectronics.com/pgncs-jbv/

[ginormous]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

This makes no sense at all to me. There is going to be noise in any passive setup (which I strongly disagree with), so among other things add a preamp? And you defer to those with more experience re: actives? You just told him to make it active!

There is going to be noise in any passive setup? Meaning every passive setup? No. I agree with you about the shielding, but a good passive humbucking pickup or set of pickups will not add noise. Most of my basses are passive and have no noise issues. As a matter of fact, the only basses I ever have noise issues with have preamps on them.


Maybe you forgot to add "single coil" in your post? That would make more sense to me.

Yes, you're right. I should have been more specific. Allow me to clarify: In the abstract, everything has a noise floor. Even in an anechoic chamber, the sound of a heartbeat, and the blood rushing through ones' ears, could be heard.

Many of the popular bass pickups (Rickenbacker 4000 series, original Precision, split-coil Precision and Jazz, to name a few) are in fact single coil. The split-coil P is technically 2 single coils, wired in series. By themselves, they can be noisy at times -- subject to RFI (radio frequency interference), power line buzz (from florescent or neon lights, for example), microphonics due to loose winding, and so on. An off-the-shelf electric bass with factory passive SC pickups can be something of a coin flip in terms of sound or performance; that's one of the reasons why Seymour Duncan (the company) exists. Hotter pickup output increases the S/N ratio, of course. Shielding helps with the RFI, good grounding and braided signal wire wrap will reduce hum and buzz. Even after all that, however, there will be a very slight hiss. This is no big deal on stage. The amp is usually noisier than that, the HVAC in the room will drown that out, and when the crowd shows up they don't care anyway, as long as they can hear you. However, a really anal retentive studio engineer (IMO, part of the job description) will noise gate you just on general principle, for that little tiny bit of hiss.

The humbucker was developed to combat single coil's inherent deficiencies, and it did so successfully. However, it's not the same sound as a single coil.

I don't dispute that you've got a good, quiet sound. I'm glad, because I had to jump through some hoops to get the sounds I needed from both my 5-string P and my Jazz. Pup swaps, braided wire wraps, copper foil lining the body cavities, upgrading the volume and tone pots, cap swaps on the tone controls... my experience with single coil setups has been arduous but worthwhile.

Again, you're right, so again let me apologize: a preamp by itself will only boost the signal, so garbage in, garbage out. If it's noisy to start with, it'll only be noisy and loud afterwards. It was my (mis-)understanding that active pickups were more for low-impedance matching.

[idsnowdog]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I have wanted to build a frankenbass like this. Stacked Jazz Bridge, P-bass and EBO neck.

[BlueTalon]

Re: Swiss Army-Bass

I had an opportunity to step into Hewlett Packard's anechoic chamber once, that was a bizarre experience (for someone who's not used to it). And I agree with you about the varying levels of sound. There have to be some assumed definitions when talking about stuff like this, otherwise every statement would require an explanation or elaboration, and the conversation would bog down. But sometimes it's necessary to explain.

Assuming there's nothing wrong with it, you can turn on just about any solid state amp with nothing plugged into it in a normal room and not hear it. Crank that same amp up full, and you might be able to hear the fact that it's on. That, or something close to it, is about my threshold for noise tolerance.

In my experience with my own basses, I have had great luck with getting good sound from humbuckers. I have heard many people say the same sorts of things you say about single coil pickups, so I have to assume there's something to it, but honestly I don't really understand it because I have never experienced any tonal limitations with humbuckers in general. It would be one thing if it was just me and my ears, but that's also the consistent feedback I've received from other musicians.

Regarding "humbuckers" -- I believe split single coil pickups belong in that category. You said "split-coil P is technically 2 single coils, wired in series." That's technically true of humbuckers, too (when they're wired in series). The difference is that split single coils sense string vibration at one point on the string instead of two, but they are no less humbucking than twin-coil humbuckers.

So here's a question for you. Do you consider split-single-coil pickups to be single coil pickups? Or humbuckers? Or both?