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  • GFS Retrotrons

    After recently having a great experience with GFS Mean90's in a Les Paul, I'm wondering about the GFS Retrotron Liverpool pickups (A5 humbucker-sized Gretsch-like pickup).

    I'm specifically considering them for an Epiphone Elitist 335 I have, which has '57 Classics in it. I find them to be a little too warm for my taste. Plus, I'm a huge Soundgarden fan, and Cornell's signature ES 335 with Lollartrons sounded GREAT at the recent iTunes festival. But, I don't think I want to drop a set of $175 APIECE pickups in an Epiphone guitar, even though it's a Fujigen factory guitar that's very good.

    I'm also just considering starting by swapping the pots in it, which I assume to be 300k, for 500k's to see if that gets me closer to the brighter, more open top end I'm looking for without changing the pickups, but being a semi-hollow it's sort of a pain in the ass to do that and then decide I need to pull it all back apart because it didn't get me where I wanted to go...

    Anybody use the Liverpools in a semi-hollow? I know it's a longshot, but anybody directly compare the Liverpools with Lollartrons? Or, should I just start by swapping pots?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: GFS Retrotrons

    I've never used the Liverpools, but I have used the NY2 and NY5 GFS pickups. I've been very happy with them. Your Epiphone should have 500K pots in it. I wouldn't worry about messing with them until you at least try your pickups out first.

    It may be tough to find someone who has used Lollartrons as they are kind of pricey.

    For what it's worth, I think the Liverpools would be awesome in a hollowbody/semi-hollowbody.
    1998 Dean Select ML, Dean Bubinga ML, Dean Icon, Dean Custom 450, Luna Andromeda, DBZ Bolero, Guild Bluesbird, Gretsch G5420TG, 4 Strats, BC Rich Mockingbird Special, PMC/ Cort Archtop, Agile 7 string, 2 Custom Made, Walden D710, Dean Juggernaut Bass, Squier Classic 60's Jazz Bass, Sunn Alpha 212R, Genz-Benz El Diablo, Laney GH-100L, Crate Blue Voodoo, Univox 1051, 1987 Erich Phretchner Cello, Custom Built Electric Cello

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    • #3
      Re: GFS Retrotrons

      The '57 pups are nice warm sounding pups, but they are not totally lacking in treble either. It can be coaxed out of them with the right tweaking.

      You might want to try adjusting the EQ knobs on your amp. Not only is it free, but it's a whole lot easier than changing pots or pups in a 335.
      Originally Posted by IanBallard
      Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: GFS Retrotrons

        Originally posted by ksms View Post
        After recently having a great experience with GFS Mean90's in a Les Paul, I'm wondering about the GFS Retrotron Liverpool pickups (A5 humbucker-sized Gretsch-like pickup).

        I'm specifically considering them for an Epiphone Elitist 335 I have, which has '57 Classics in it. I find them to be a little too warm for my taste. Plus, I'm a huge Soundgarden fan, and Cornell's signature ES 335 with Lollartrons sounded GREAT at the recent iTunes festival. But, I don't think I want to drop a set of $175 APIECE pickups in an Epiphone guitar, even though it's a Fujigen factory guitar that's very good.

        I'm also just considering starting by swapping the pots in it, which I assume to be 300k, for 500k's to see if that gets me closer to the brighter, more open top end I'm looking for without changing the pickups, but being a semi-hollow it's sort of a pain in the ass to do that and then decide I need to pull it all back apart because it didn't get me where I wanted to go...

        Anybody use the Liverpools in a semi-hollow? I know it's a longshot, but anybody directly compare the Liverpools with Lollartrons? Or, should I just start by swapping pots?

        Thanks!
        If you anticipate or expect Lollartron sound from a GFS you will be left wanting and dissapointed. It's useful to consider them different pickups/designs in all regards in order to stay clear about the results. Lollartrons are finely tuned and adjusted to have that Gretsch growl, clarity and punch along with Jason's own touch and it shows in tone, material quality and design. Like Seymour, his pickup designs and QC are excellent. Tom at TV Jones is also an integral designer (Janie, Lynne and the whole crew are fabulous) and makes the best aftermarket production Gretsch voiced pickups available IMO. His 'Classics' are soulfully excellent classic Gretsch growl and chime and he offers them in a Humbucker mount. http://store.tvjones.com/tv-classic-p36.aspx I have these in My 6119 Tennessee Rose. $260 for the pair. That's a great deal IMO.

        The Lollartrons are sexier perhaps and unique with the old-school Filtertron look in a HB size and if Jason made an actual Filtertron replacement I would buy them.
        If you are working on a semi or hollow body, get a hold of surgical tubing. It is a time saver/finish saver and makes swapping out pickups quick. For a production SD offering, the Phat Cats will be closest to the Gretsch sound IME. A couple members find them dark in a 335 style guitar, but I personally find them well-balanced and chimy. There was a time I switched between SD custom shop Filters and the Phat Cats on a regular basis. Great all the way around.

        Cheers, RG
        Rodney Gene Junior - My Artist Page And Gear Affiliations Austin Texas

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: GFS Retrotrons

          I agree and disagree with Rodney (respectfully of course)

          The retrotrons AREN'T exact lollartrons or filtertrons but they DO get you most of the way there. They have that gretschy jangle and crunch under gain... And for a "cheaper" guitar they do the job without dropping $350...

          Yes the lollartrons will sound more like Cornell but the retrotrons aren't half bad, in fact they're damn good! especially for the price!
          There's nothing less metal than trying to act metal.

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          • #6
            Re: GFS Retrotrons

            Originally posted by Chocklit_Thunda View Post
            I agree and disagree with Rodney (respectfully of course)

            The retrotrons AREN'T exact lollartrons or filtertrons but they DO get you most of the way there. They have that gretschy jangle and crunch under gain... And for a "cheaper" guitar they do the job without dropping $350...

            Yes the lollartrons will sound more like Cornell but the retrotrons aren't half bad, in fact they're damn good! especially for the price!
            LOL! Its all good bro. I appreciate all opinions and respect is always in play. Besides, I knew what to expect going into the thread. Since it always happens when cheap gear is compared to high quality gear (such as the OP's question), I generally stay out of the conversation. It's usually a dead end and I know it. On a rare occasion I do hope to be influential and help lead someone to a different thought process because it leads to a better end in the long term. Somedays such as today (as I am in the studio recording with 3 Gretsch guitars this week) I am inspired to share/support the benefit of higher-quality, better made (more specifically and intentional voiced through experience) pickups and the resulting long term effects on us as players. I personally have found that anytime we as musicians feel the impulse to say 'for the price', we compromised somewhere and we got what we paid for....for the price. You won't get Filtetron sound from the GFS. Lower output jangle or clarity? OK, but not 'Gretsch' jangle. Not Lollartron clarity.

            'Most of the way there is never...there. You still lack the tone, dynamics, growl etc. of the tone you were after. If that is satisfactory for someone because of price that's cool, I get it. It is too much of a stretch and compromise for me personally today. 'The' tone we seek and talk about is always in that last mile and properly designed gear takes you through that last mile. If 'almost good enough'..is..'good enough' for a player, then it makes little difference anyway. They should ignore this and carry on. I realize short term gain is popular and many of us are impatient, but for the life and soul of me and my music I cannot imagine comprising or falling short of that last % of tone for a few bucks. I would rather save just a bit longer and get what I know is meant for my spirit and heart.

            Cheers, RG
            Rodney Gene Junior - My Artist Page And Gear Affiliations Austin Texas

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: GFS Retrotrons

              See this I agree with fully. The retrotrons are merely a simulation of the filtertron sound. They capture that basic essence that most people look for but are definitely lacking in the subtle nuances that make the filtertrons unique. And I agree that you'll usually get getter results with the higher end stuff. My experience with the retrotrons however has left me satisfied. The key was that I didn't expect them to sound 100% like a gretsch filtertron but more like a midpoint between a Tron and a regular bucker. So what they lack in terms of being a filtertron, they make up for in being their own unique pickup based on filtertron like characteristics. In that sense I see what you say about compromise along the way.

              One thing I do disagree with is the saying that higher end leads to better end results. I believe it leads to a higher chance of a better result but in the past I've had fantastic experience with some of the cheaper stuff too. GFS pickups, wilkinson bridges and tuners, a squier SE strat neck, every Cort guitar I've owned, alpha potentiometers.... Although their "greatness" does vary... Some of the corts I've chosen over more expensive epi's, PRS SE's, ibanez's, yamahas etc, that squier neck is the most comfortable I've ever played, the wilkinson bridges for Tele are my hardware of choice but GFS pickups could be better, alphas have a great feel but lack consistency (a trade off).
              Parallel to that, some people have even had bad experiences with a few pickups on the Duncan line. (I do believe with many pickups it doesn't matter where in the world the worker is when he presses the button to start the winding machine, as long as the materials and wind are good, you'll end up with a great pickup. What makes Duncan's better is that much more care is taken when designing the pickups than other cheaper alternatives.)
              I find with a lot of parts there isn't much of a difference in quality from say for example the $50 part to the $150 part. Sometimes the differences are marginal between parts within a price bracket and only once you go over that do you start seeing major results such as the callaham parts people are raving about. The parts before the callaham line seem to all share similar problems until you get to the callaham line where they're fixed and the differences are obvious. Other times with hardware such as pickguards, cavity covers, Tele control plates, jack sockets etc, I don't see the point in paying over $10 a piece. As long as the quality decent you're fine. (It's only when you get sub par stuff that you shouldn't take this advice.)
              That's just an example but I'm just trying to explain.
              I don't advocate using cheap parts unless that's what someone wants or they definitely do a better/equal job (and I can prove it)

              Both sides of this "argument" are important. Does the OP want to emulate the tone 100% or is most of the way there good enough? Is he willing to save up for the real deal or, like me is he strapped for cash and looking for an upgrade at a good price? Having both sides of the story lets him find where he is in the spectrum and choose from there, so in a way, even if the OP doesn't follow your advice in saving up, you still helped him gauge his position. And vice versa.

              But it's late here and I'm rambling so I'm gonna stop

              Cheers and I hope the op finds this helpful
              Last edited by Chocklit_Thunda; 03-29-2014, 03:20 PM.
              There's nothing less metal than trying to act metal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: GFS Retrotrons

                Thanks for the opinions, and I hear you about Lollar vs GFS.

                I just can't see dropping $340 worth of pickups into a guitar I bought for $500, even if I got a "steal" on that deal. I like the quitar quite a lot, but it still says Epiphone on the headstock, and if I ever wanted to sell it, I'd have a really hard time finding a buyer willing to pay for it with the Lollartrons in it, so I'd be looking at having to pull them back out and sell it all separately.

                I'm not looking for an exact Filtertron, or even a Lollartron. I'm looking for something slightly brighter, maybe a little lower output, and with more character than the '57 Classics, and it sounds like the Retrotrons might get me there, as they're generally well liked from the sound of it.

                I sort of cycle through my guitars and adjust them to my taste at the moment, and then enjoy them until I move on to another one of them and see if I can take it to the next level, or closer to my taste at the moment.

                I like the Mean 90s I put in my LP way better than anything I've had in there so far, and that's all that matters to me. People seem to like them better than almost any production humbucker sized P90, including Phat Cats or P94s. Sure, the Lollar versions of those get better reviews too, but my tastes change too quick to justify it. So, if the prevailing opinion is that Retrotrons get you "most of the way there" and are of about the quality of the Mean90s overall, I will probably take a chance on them.

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                • #9
                  Re: GFS Retrotrons

                  Originally posted by Chocklit_Thunda View Post

                  One thing I do disagree with is the saying that higher end leads to better end results.
                  Actually bro, I don't believe this nor advocate it. Just the opposite. If, that is, by higher end you mean 'price'. However if by higher end you mean 'quality' then yes. I realize some people cannot discern or even care to hear what happens in that gap. It is not a linear scale and that often throws people off. Perception and price is an interesting reality with objects. We often have to pay 300% more to gain 10% in quality and for many players that just doesn't justify the end. However, it is that last 10% where true excellence often exists, where cost is often accrued and where some players have a sensitive awareness. For some reason on this forum as of the past few years when awareness of that subtle detail is advocated, the topic risks being derailed. Even the connotation. Its one of the reasons I govern my involvement here anymore.

                  Like I said CT, its all good. Great actually. We all have different experiences, values and real-life reference points we pull from. All of them valid. Cheers, RG
                  Rodney Gene Junior - My Artist Page And Gear Affiliations Austin Texas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: GFS Retrotrons

                    Sounds like you've made an informed decision.

                    I, for one, can really respect that.

                    Getting what is "best" for YOU is what is important.
                    Originally Posted by IanBallard
                    Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: GFS Retrotrons

                      I have a set of the GFS Memphis Retrotrons in a basswood/maple solid body. All I can say is that the Memphis sound amazing in that guitar, they are just the alnico 2 version of the liverpools. The neck is very sweet and very jangly sounding. The bridge is nice clean although can sound a little thin when you start adding gain. I would not at all hesitate from trying the liverpools, they might be exactly what you want. You could also try putting the Memphis in the neck, with the liverpools in the bridge, that would be killer tone, the neck would be so sweet sounding and the bridge might be exactly that cornell tone your'e looking for.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: GFS Retrotrons

                        This thread is 6 years old. I'm sure he's got thing sorted out by now.
                        Originally Posted by IanBallard
                        Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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