Vitamin Q 0.022

[Big Flannel]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Yep, Unfortunately he's well on his way to an endorsement deal while the rest of us are still living in mediocrity, left to toil forever in darkness, chasing after our ignorant ideas of tone.

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Drex, read Crusty's build thread, then read some of his amp threads, then consider that he's most likely been doing this longer than you've been alive, and then have a think about trying to tell him about "completeness and authenticity".

I mean no disrespect to Crusty, or anyone else for that matter, and I regret if my choice of words comes out as such.

If all it took to settle the debate over whether the dielectric of a cap makes an audible difference in passive guitar wiring was experience building amps, the debate would have been over years ago. But still to this day, people post things like the OP of this thread posted, promising that there is a difference:

I'm not so sure anymore, sure i think it's fair to say that the change in materials used will effect the tone! I have a polyester film cap sprague 0.22 a ceramic disk cap (RadioShack) 0.022 and a Russian NOS PIO 0.022 and a Vitamin Q nos pio and I can almost promise you everyone here will pick the Vitamin Q

We're all working with guesses and opinions over something which is ultimately, objectively true or false, not something which is a matter of personal preference.

Until we see specifics and details as to how one dielectric results in different tone than another in a passive guitar circuit, spending more than the cheapest amount possible on a cap of a given value is, to some degree, a small gamble.

[Big Flannel]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Ok.

[jimijames]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

The news about radio shack saddens me... I rummage around through the parts bins when I can but they don't have a lot. Last thing I still use that I got from them is a big box of resistors that are all pretty good tolerance... Says like 10 or 20% on the package but all the ones I've used measure within 5. Could also be that my multimeter is garbage though lol.

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

We're all working with guesses and opinions over something which is ultimately, objectively true or false, not something which is a matter of personal preference.

Until we see specifics and details as to how one dielectric results in different tone than another in a passive guitar circuit, spending more than the cheapest amount possible on a cap of a given value is, to some degree, a small gamble.

Crusty understands this and he doesnt care. Its his choice for his own self. He isnt trying to settle the debate hes just saying how HE approaches the matter. Capisci?

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Crusty understands this and he doesnt care. Its his choice for his own self. He isnt trying to settle the debate hes just saying how HE approaches the matter. Capisci?

Crusty can respond for himself.

People seem to be a little over-sensitive/over-passionate about this, and a lot of other things. I haven't insulted anyone's mother, I haven't disparaged anyone behind their backs, but these things have been done to me in turn... a lot. There is no question that these are all huge overreactions.

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Crusty can respond for himself.

People seem to be a little over-sensitive/over-passionate about this, and a lot of other things. I haven't insulted anyone's mother, I haven't disparaged anyone behind their backs, but these things have been done to me in turn... a lot. There is no question that these are all huge overreactions.

He did respond for himself its written in his original post but it seemed to go over your head so i was trying to shed a little light on it for you. You have no room to talk at all about over reactions.

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

He did respond for himself its written in his original post but it seemed to go over your head so i was trying to shed a little light on it for you.

Of course, you have nothing but the most benevolent of intentions.

You have no room to talk at all about over reactions.

Like I said, I'm not insulting anyone's mom's, or misquoting them to make them look bad, so I have that going for me.

[DreX]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

The gist of Crusty's post is very easy to understand: he's certain that spending money on Sprague Vitamin Q caps caps is not a waste of money, but he also admits to not being certain that he can hear a difference, which is to say, certain of an uncertainty. When you invest any amount of money in an uncertain outcome, you're taking a risk, a gamble. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a $4 cap or a $60,000 Dumble amp, it just means you like to play the penny slots rather than bet the farm.

This isn't just about caps, this is about snake oil in the guitar world in general. Nice caps are just one thing in a long list of premium priced guitar related products and components with dubious, or overstated value.

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

or misquoting them to make them look bad

I'm gonna vehemently disagree with you here champ, You've done this to me and many others many many times. I dont see anyone insulting your mom in this thread so no idea why you keep bringing it up.

[CTN]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

The gist of Crusty's post is very easy to understand: he's certain that spending money on Sprague Vitamin Q caps caps is not a waste of money, but he also admits to not being certain that he can hear a difference, which is to say, certain of an uncertainty. When you invest any amount of money in an uncertain outcome, you're taking a risk, a gamble. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a $4 cap or a $60,000 Dumble amp, it just means you like to play the penny slots rather than bet the farm.

This isn't just about caps, this is about snake oil in the guitar world in general. Nice caps are just one thing in a long list of premium priced guitar related products and components with dubious, or overstated value.

Thank you captain obvious.

Next, can you please teach me how to play cowboy chords so that I can throw away the past 18 years of experience I have of playing guitar in favour of learning The DreX Method? Please?

I will give you my first born son as renumeration.

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

The gist of Crusty's post is very easy to understand: he's certain that spending money on Sprague Vitamin Q caps caps is not a waste of money, but he also admits to not being certain that he can hear a difference, which is to say, certain of an uncertainty. When you invest any amount of money in an uncertain outcome, you're taking a risk, a gamble. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a $4 cap or a $60,000 Dumble amp, it just means you like to play the penny slots rather than bet the farm.

This isn't just about caps, this is about snake oil in the guitar world in general. Nice caps are just one thing in a long list of premium priced guitar related products and components with dubious, or overstated value.

So cheap and nasty components are the only reliable path to follow ?

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Crusty understands this and he doesnt care. Its his choice for his own self. He isnt trying to settle the debate hes just saying how HE approaches the matter. Capisci?

Thank you. That is exactly where I'm coming from. I'm simply presenting a possible third scenario, after 'exotic caps make a difference' and 'exotic caps make absolutely no difference'. My scenario is ' I don't know, but i've spent so much upgrading instruments that it would be foolish NOT to install what could be the best cap'. The typical costs to upgrade a guitar has been $300-350 (quality pickups, pots, switches, wiring, pickguards for Strats), so it would be a bad move to use a poor quality cap. If the extra $10 expense for a supposedly good cap is wasted, well .... you certainly won't hear me complain about that. Whilst the cap's performance remains unproven either way, I sleep well at night knowing my guitars sound stunningly good and i can't make them any better.

I'm not trying to force my view onto anybody else, simply relating another possible alternative. Guys like Edgecrusher (and i suspect most of the forum) get it ... they may or may not agree or think my way is valid, but they give me the credit for having my own take on it without deriding me or taking me to task over it. Neither are they making money an issue, as (hopefully) I've made the point that the cost of the 'experiment' is only a small percentage of the overall cost.

And i've said all this more than once in this thread. No-one seems to feel the need to pursue me over my approach. Well, almost no-one. Jeepers, some people play expensive Gibson and PRS guitars and can barely play (I've seen a mature-aged guy trying out a genuine Les Paul in a store because he was thinking about learning to play guitar). Some guys have gig-sized boutique amps that never get used outside of their bedrooms. Most of us probably have more guitars than we really need.

Putting a possibly reckless and useless $10-20 capacitor 'improvement' into my guitar seems very very minor in contrast.

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

Crusty can respond for himself.

Indeed he can, and he just did, in the post above.

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Vitamin Q 0.022

The gist of Crusty's post is very easy to understand: he's certain that spending money on Sprague Vitamin Q caps caps is not a waste of money, but he also admits to not being certain that he can hear a difference, which is to say, certain of an uncertainty. When you invest any amount of money in an uncertain outcome, you're taking a risk, a gamble. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a $4 cap or a $60,000 Dumble amp, it just means you like to play the penny slots rather than bet the farm.

This isn't just about caps, this is about snake oil in the guitar world in general. Nice caps are just one thing in a long list of premium priced guitar related products and components with dubious, or overstated value.

How do you ever get any enjoyment from art ?