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Thread: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

  1. #41
    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    It's overly simplistic to say "company X does..." or "company Y does not offer specs", because specs are meant in any event to impart information to the customer about how the product will perform, therefore differing amounts of specific data are appropriate or necessary depending on the nature of the product.

    The withheld specifications about pickups are wholly relevant to how one pickup choice will differ from another. We would be better informed consumers if we had access to those specification. The reason you don't see detailed recipes for Coca Cola is because a) it costs fifty cents to try it out b) the information will not make us a better informed consumer.
    No, it is not overly simplistic to say "company X" or "company y" does or does not "offer specs". That's a weak rebuttal. Try again.

    When you go to buy a car, do you get the blueprints to the car? Do you get to know everything about how it went from a blueprint all the way to a machine you can drive? No. You get some specs like mpg, horsepower, engine size, features, etc. What you do not get are any kind of company or trade secrets that "company y" holds a patent on. If you were to walk into a dealership and request such information you would be laughed at and shown the door (even if you had a briefcase of full of cash).

    Seymour Duncan currently gives you the same kind of specs as a car manufacturer. Magnet/engine size, Color (covered or uncovered, etc)/paint job, Tone chart including readings and EQ/horsepower and mpg.

    Sure, anybody with the right resources could reverse engineer the Dodge Challenger Hellcat or the Seymour Duncan Whole Lotta Humbucker but that does not mean Dodge or Seymour Duncan is going to make it easy for them to do so. To request such information and actually believe it to be necessary to make an informed decision about a purchase is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Especially if you live in the States where you can take a 21 day "test drive" of any Duncan pickup with no additional charge. Show me another pickup company cool enough to even provide you with a tone chart let alone hand you the keys to any of their pickups like that.

    Quit being so argumentative over stupid little things.

  2. #42
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsick View Post
    I can't agree really. I can't see how knowing exactly the atomic makeup of the wire used is really going to help you.
    Nobody has asked for "the atomic makeup of the wire".

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsick View Post
    The specs SD already put out are plenty fine enough given that the guitar itself, not to mention the amp, adds a complete wildcard to that inescapable "what does it sound like" question.
    If the scant given info is "plenty fine" then why are there still so many questions on this forum asking what a specific pickup will sound like?

    Besides, if you're a believer in the "resistance doesn't equal output" mantra, then you would have contradicted your own claims here in admitting that one of the few revealed specs was not indicative of the product's performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsick View Post
    To me, it's wholly sufficient to say that "Pickup X uses a YY type magnet. It has more lows/highs/mids than a JB and would suit Plywood guitars". That is plenty enough IMO.
    What's sufficient to you is not sufficient to everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsick View Post
    I could go into depth about the type of material used in the fabric of a CPU my company manufactures. But this will be of precious little value to anybody ever. And what would really be different if they demanded we use X rather than Y graded material
    As already stated, some specific details are irrelevant to how the product will perform. You even admit they are of "precious little value to anybody ever", so why did you see fit to mention this?

  3. #43
    Mojo's Minions Jocelyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    This is entertaining
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    "If you hear something you're unable to play, then you have room to grow."-Al Di Meola
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  4. #44
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    No, it is not overly simplistic to say "company X" or "company y" does or does not "offer specs". That's a weak rebuttal. Try again.

    When you go to buy a car, do you get the blueprints to the car? Do you get to know everything about how it went from a blueprint all the way to a machine you can drive? No. You get some specs like mpg, horsepower, engine size, features, etc. What you do not get are any kind of company or trade secrets that "company y" holds a patent on. If you were to walk into a dealership and request such information you would be laughed at and shown the door (even if you had a briefcase of full of cash).

    When you buy a car you get details that matter, such as the MPG rating, the terms of the warranty, convenience features, horsepower, etc.

    Guitar pickups are much simpler than cars, and therefore a deeper level of detail about a pickup will be directly relevant to how the pickup performs. A car, to a much larger extent, is still just a car. Nearly all of it's complexities are abstracted by the user interface.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Seymour Duncan currently gives you the same kind of specs as a car manufacturer. Magnet/engine size, Color (covered or uncovered, etc)/paint job, Tone chart including readings and EQ/horsepower and mpg.
    This is the problem with analogies, they are only useful to an extent. There are other details that SD withholds that would be informative. Other pickup winders such as Fralin or The Creamery are much more forthcoming with specifications. It's not strange or unheard of, nothing like asking for "blueprints to the car".

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Sure, anybody with the right resources could reverse engineer the Dodge Challenger Hellcat or the Seymour Duncan Whole Lotta Humbucker but that does not mean Dodge or Seymour Duncan is going to make it easy for them to do so. To request such information and actually believe it to be necessary to make an informed decision about a purchase is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
    Not ridiculous. Other pickup winders offer more technical details than SD and the sky remains... unfallen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Absolutely ridiculous.
    So you've said.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Especially if you live in the States where you can take a 21 day "test drive" of any Duncan pickup with no additional charge. Show me another pickup company cool enough to even provide you with a tone chart let alone hand you the keys to any of their pickups like that.
    Time is money.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Quit being so argumentative over stupid little things.
    You replied to me, remember? If you don't like it...

  5. #45
    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    When you buy a car you get details that matter, such as the MPG rating, the terms of the warranty, convenience features, horsepower, etc.

    Guitar pickups are much simpler than cars, and therefore a deeper level of detail about a pickup will be directly relevant to how the pickup performs. A car, to a much larger extent, is still just a car. Nearly all of it's complexities are abstracted by the user interface.



    This is the problem with analogies, they are only useful to an extent. There are other details that SD withholds that would be informative. Other pickup winders such as Fralin or The Creamery are much more forthcoming with specifications. It's not strange or unheard of, nothing like asking for "blueprints to the car".



    Not ridiculous. Other pickup winders offer more technical details than SD and the sky remains... unfallen.



    So you've said.



    Time is money.



    You replied to me, remember? If you don't like it...
    Just stop. We're all very impressed by the almighty Drex so you can definitely stop now.

  6. #46
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    You might think this is just about arguing on the internet, but I really do want more technical details to be provided so that we can make more informed purchase decisions. I have already bought maybe twenty Seymour Duncan pickup models over the years, but there are still dozens more I haven't tried, and my means of deciding which to my next are as crude as ever. There are a number of pickups I'm interested in such as the SSL-3, the APS-1, or the Five-Two, but I'm reluctant to take a gamble on them. If I could, for example, see the technical extent to which the APS-1 differs from the SSL-1, or how the SSL-3 differs from the SSL-5, I would have greater confidence in the purchase and more willingness to reach for my credit card. Over time, I'd have a better understanding of how the different component types contribute to the final tone, and I could hopefully never buy a pickup I end up disliking ever again.

    If you come along and offer logically faulty statements as to why my request should be denied, obviously I'm going to come to my own defense.
    Last edited by DreX; 01-28-2015 at 11:23 AM.

  7. #47
    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    You might think this is just about arguing on the internet, but I really do want more technical details to be provided so that we can make more informed purchase decisions. I have already bought maybe twenty Seymour Duncan pickup models over the years, but there are still dozens more I haven't tried, and my means of deciding which to my next are as crude as ever. There are a number of pickups I'm interested in such as the SSL-3, the APS-1, or the Five-Two, but I'm reluctant to take a gamble on them. If I could, for example, see the technical extent to which the APS-1 differs from the SSL-1, or how the SSL-3 differs from the SSL-5, I would have greater confidence in the purchase and more willingness to reach for my credit card. Over time, I'd have a better understanding of how the different component types contribute to the final tone, and I could hopefully never buy a pickup I end up disliking ever again.

    If you come along and offer logically faulty statements as to why my request should be denied, obviously I'm going to come to my own defense.
    Sorry buddy, but you are the only one offering logically faulty statements here. If you don't want people to think you are not about arguing over the internet then you at least have to bring something worth our time to the table. You repeatedly fail to do so in almost all of your argumentative posts. My responses were all valid reasons why you do not need the more secretive information on each pickup:

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Name one company, just one buddy, who does this for any of their products (let alone a pickup company). Seriously, this is ridiculous.

    When you go to buy a car, do you get the blueprints to the car? Do you get to know everything about how it went from a blueprint all the way to a machine you can drive? No. You get some specs like mpg, horsepower, engine size, features, etc. What you do not get are any kind of company or trade secrets that "company y" holds a patent on. If you were to walk into a dealership and request such information you would be laughed at and shown the door (even if you had a briefcase of full of cash).

    Seymour Duncan currently gives you the same kind of specs as a car manufacturer. Magnet/engine size, Color (covered or uncovered, etc)/paint job, Tone chart including readings and EQ/horsepower and mpg.

    Sure, anybody with the right resources could reverse engineer the Dodge Challenger Hellcat or the Seymour Duncan Whole Lotta Humbucker but that does not mean Dodge or Seymour Duncan is going to make it easy for them to do so. To request such information and actually believe it to be necessary to make an informed decision about a purchase is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Especially if you live in the States where you can take a 21 day "test drive" of any Duncan pickup with no additional charge. Show me another pickup company cool enough to even provide you with a tone chart let alone hand you the keys to any of their pickups like that.
    Since that might not be enough:
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Skopp View Post
    If this is January, we must be getting the "How About a Sub-Forum" requests. Thank you for the suggestion.

    Way back when, the Vault was the place where we reviewed pickups. If you'd like to start a review thread of a pickup that's not already in the vault, please do so. And at some point, when it's run it's course, we'll Vault it. If you want to add something to a review that's already in the Vault, PM one of the admins, and we'll move it for a day or two into the Pickup Lounge and then return it to the Vault. Just please remember to stay on point and not hijack a review thread.



    I got a good laugh out of this. Drex, I'd like to see your SSN, all your credit card numbers and PINs posted for all of us use freely. I don't buy the privacy thing. If someone really wants to steal your identity, they can figure it out anyway. So please make it easier for them.

    (By the way, before you start calling the Internet police on me, that's a joke. And I'm going to give Drex the benefit of the doubt and assume he was joking too).
    Last word.
    Last edited by SnakeAces; 01-28-2015 at 11:48 AM.

  8. #48
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Sorry buddy, but you are the only one offering logically faulty statements here. If you don't want people to think you are not about arguing over the internet then you at least have to bring something worth our time to the table. You repeatedly fail to do so in almost all of your argumentative posts. My responses were all valid reasons why you do not need the more secretive information on each pickup:
    There's no substance in any of that. It's a counterpoint to nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post

    Since that might not be enough:


    Last word.
    Evan doesn't work for SD at the moment, so if you're suggesting that's an official "no", then... no.

  9. #49
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Especially if you live in the States where you can take a 21 day "test drive" of any Duncan pickup with no additional charge. Show me another pickup company cool enough to even provide you with a tone chart let alone hand you the keys to any of their pickups like that.
    I already said this, you force me to repeat myself: Time is money. It would be far more time economical to have data provided than to buy a pickup, measure it the best I can without breaking it, install and remove it within the allotted time frame and then ship it back at a cost.

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    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    There's no substance in any of that. It's a counterpoint to nothing.



    Evan doesn't work for SD at the moment, so if you're suggesting that's an official "no", then... no.
    There's no substance to anything I have posted. Wow, what an argument. Since DreX said it, it must be true!

  11. #51
    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    I already said this, you force me to repeat myself: Time is money. It would be far more time economical to have data provided than to buy a pickup, measure it the best I can without breaking it, install and remove it within the allotted time frame and then ship it back at a cost.
    Another ridiculous statement by the infamous DreX. All hail King DreX, for his demands have been made!

    Most real players would love the chance to hear a pickup they would like to consider purchasing in their own guitar, through their own amp, through their own pedals. To the musician this experience is more valuable than time itself, which, if you know how to do basic math... means it is more valuable than money.

  12. #52
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    There's no substance to anything I have posted. Wow, what an argument. Since DreX said it, it must be true!
    I didn't include the qualifier "anything you posted", that's was all you.

  13. #53
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Another ridiculous statement by the infamous DreX. All hail King DreX, for his demands have been made!
    Ad hominem

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    Most real players would love the chance to hear a pickup they would like to consider purchasing in their own guitar, ...
    Irrelevant to the discussion.

  14. #54
    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    Ad hominem



    Irrelevant to the discussion.
    The only thing irrelevant to this entire discussion is you. Have you noticed that absolutely nobody agrees with you? Nobody. Nobody at all, not a single person. Do you ever wonder why that is?

  15. #55
    Mojo's Minions crguti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?


  16. #56
    Ultimate Tone Slacker DreX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnakeAces View Post
    The only thing irrelevant to this entire discussion is you. Have you noticed that absolutely nobody agrees with you? Nobody. Nobody at all, not a single person. Do you ever wonder why that is?
    ad populum

  17. #57
    Ultimate Tone Slacker zenmindbeginner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    I do reviews and when I do them, I don't post them here. I did in the past but the threads get little to no interest.

    Has DreX seen the ghost town called the "Tips and Clips" section?

    Nobody really cares about reviews on this site... they'd rather come here to argue/talk about their latest gear purchase or complain about something.

    So there you go, that's about the "alpha and omega" of it.

  18. #58
    Ultimate Kitten Puncher King IzzO)))'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    *sigh*

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Ok this thread hasn't provided anything useful in like 2 pages. Time to lock it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockstar216 View Post
    Musician thinking - nice strat, looks like a 62, that Marshall JCM 800 sounds great, the lead guitarist could use a bit less treble

    Bar patron thinking - Wonder if these guys know "Free bird"?

  20. #60
    Mojo's Minions SnakeAces's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shoud we have a pickups review thread/forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
    I can do that too!

    Link to something completely irrelevant to this discussion.

    DreX - helping threads get locked since Nov 2013

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