making cheap guitars awesome

[Muffleberry]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I disagree with pointers 1, 2 and 3.

You seem to disagree with everything, dude. Lol!

Is it lonely up there by yourself?

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

You seem to disagree with everything

I stated that I agree with #6

[EDX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

my points to say electronics are crap are actually focused on the product performance, as for example, and i think isn't only my liking, but pots should be smoth to turn yet not too loose, if they are way too loose that it turns hard to set the amount of volume or high end cut you want then you should swap them, also if when measuring with a multimeter the ohm reading has bad tolerance (500k pots reading less than 420K) other is if the wire is too flimsy, brittle or thin, but those are lesser factors, another one is the selector switch, if the switch happens to fail at making prooper contac (switchin) then change it

i said some cheap pickups are actually nice, the duncan designed was an example, the stock p'ups in some washburn, stringber and ibby's are way nice sounding

the saddles, sometimes they wear way fast, if the saddles happens to wear down more than the nut with every string change they're crap, i think there is actually no way to discuse that

shielding, if the electronics aren't shielded then you will had noise when using high gain

head to 7:35, shielding does made a difference!!

[kramersteen]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

You seem to disagree with everything, dude. Lol!

Is it lonely up there by yourself?

You sir are my new best friend.

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

my points to say electronics are crap are actually focused on the product performance, as for example, and i think isn't only my liking, but pots should be smoth to turn yet not too loose, if they are way too loose that it turns hard to set the amount of volume or high end cut you want then you should swap them,
also if when measuring with a multimeter the ohm reading has bad tolerance (500k pots reading less than 420K) other is if the wire is too flimsy, brittle or thin, but those are lesser factors, another one is the selector switch, if the switch happens to fail at making prooper contac (switchin) then change it

On all these points of quality, I haven't observed a consistent difference in performance between expensive versus cheap. Turning resistance is more of a preference thing, and depends mostly on the pot design itself than the build quality. Wires being brittle, they're not generally a moving part anyway, they shouldn't break if undisturbed, and they shouldn't be disturbed often enough for it to be an issue. Regarding selectors, I've actually had more trouble with vintage style selectors getting oxidized and dirty than the lower cost printed board type. The resistance value might be further off on the cheaper pots, but like you said, make sure it's bad before you bother replacing, don't just swap it out for it's own sake.

i said some cheap pickups are actually nice, the duncan designed was an example, the stock p'ups in some washburn, stringber and ibby's are way nice sounding

It's purely subjective. Having said that, this is a forum full of people who apparently dislike stock pickups.

the saddles, sometimes they wear way fast, if the saddles happens to wear down more than the nut with every string change they're crap, i think there is actually no way to discuse that

Sure, but again, check them for wear, don't assume they will wear out and replace preemptively. That's a total waste of money.

shielding, if the electronics aren't shielded then you will had noise when using high gain

head to 7:35, shielding does made a difference!!

Hmm, I'm not sure what I was supposed to be watching or listening for there, but that's not a very convincing video of anything in particular. I just hear boring playing and a crappy recording. I don't have too much against shielding, I just don't want to further yet another guitar myth unnecessarily. People talk themselves into believing all sorts of superstitions and dubious improvements. Those "herbal supplements" must sell pretty well based on the advertising that goes into it. I want to see a good, controlled experiment performed, something to show that shielding is more than the guitar equivalent of "male enhancement".

The bottom like is that if you feel the need to upgrade a cheap guitar, it largely defeats the purpose of buying a cheap guitar, and I'd make the case that a cheap guitar is mostly acceptable the way it is.

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

You sir are my new best friend.

Wow.. who's really the lonely one here?

[Snake Aces]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Wow.. who's really the lonely one here?

It's still you:

[Securb]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

It's still you:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]60924[/ATTACH]

[Diego]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Modding cheap guitars isn't necessarily the most cost-efficient route, but it is fun. And you learn a lot by tweaking and changing bits in cheap guitars.
You learn what works for you and what doesn't. It might be a waste of money sometimes, but it's hardly ever a waste of time.

I did that with my Squier and an old Epiphone, and frankly I wouldn't do it again.
Next time I'd rather sell it and get something "ready" out of the box.

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I agree that it's tons of fun, I just want the mod to matter, is all.

[Red_Label]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Modding cheap guitars isn't necessarily the most cost-efficient route, but it is fun. And you learn a lot by tweaking and changing bits in cheap guitars.
You learn what works for you and what doesn't. It might be a waste of money sometimes, but it's hardly ever a waste of time.

I did that with my Squier and an old Epiphone, and frankly I wouldn't do it again.
Next time I'd rather sell it and get something "ready" out of the box.

Words of wisdom here!

I've been through my upgrade phase and enjoyed it. But I don't have the time or inclination for that stuff any more. A Squire will always be a Squire, and an Epi will always be an Epi. They are what they are... great guitars FOR THE MONEY. We don't even have to use the "paint a turd gold" analogy here... we can use "you can paint a piece of silver gold, but it's still silver. Most higher-end guitars are made out of better woods, that were specifically selected for use on "the good stuff". So no matter how much hardware or electronics are replaced on the lower-grade stuff... it's STILL not gonna measure-up to the higher-grade stuff. Doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of import guitars out there that play and sound as good as the domestically-made instruments. But at the end of the day, you STILL get what you pay for (in the first place) most of the time.

Oh... and to add to an earlier poster regarding a great-sounding amp... I totally agree. I'll take a cheap guitar into an awesome amp ANY day over an awesome guitar into a cheap amp. The amp's electronics are more important than the guitar's (assuming pickups that aren't total garbage). But regardless of the item in the tone chain... it all makes a difference... for the worse or the better. Some things make a huge difference that is plain to see, while others are more of a difference in the mind of the beholder only.

[DreX]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Words of wisdom here!

I've been through my upgrade phase and enjoyed it. But I don't have the time or inclination for that stuff any more. A Squire will always be a Squire, and an Epi will always be an Epi. They are what they are... great guitars FOR THE MONEY. We don't even have to use the "paint a turd gold" analogy here... we can use "you can paint a piece of silver gold, but it's still silver. Most higher-end guitars are made out of better woods, that were specifically selected for use on "the good stuff". So no matter how much hardware or electronics are replaced on the lower-grade stuff... it's STILL not gonna measure-up to the higher-grade stuff. Doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of import guitars out there that play and sound as good as the domestically-made instruments.

There's just no evidence to back up this good wood / bad wood talk. Most people think that just because something cost more it must be better, they don't know how, just know that it must be. It's partly blind faith, partly to save us from the hassle of investigating production processes and finer technical points every single time we're faced with a choice as a consumer. It's much easier to look at the price and make a snap judgement about quality. The domestic makers want you to believe they hand select "tone woods", I see jewelry stores claim they hand pick diamonds, and grocers claim they hand pick produce, to assure us consumers they are giving us the best. This is probably true to the extent that someone physically has to lift these items with their hands somewhere along the way. We debate about "tone woods" on a regular basis, and you never see industry insiders chime in to explain how they pick the best sounding chuck of wood for a premium Strat, and it's not a trade secret, it's that the truth of the matter would only serve to undermine their sales pitch.

But at the end of the day, you STILL get what you pay for (in the first place) most of the time.

That's a saying that sometimes holds true, and should in a perfect world, but this is especially not true in the case of guitars. First, it's at odds with the widely agreed upon concept of diminishing returns in relation to higher price points. You get what you pay for up to a certain price point, beyond which you to pay a lot more and receive less. Second, when a portion of the guitar's price is owed to the higher cost of labor in a specific locale, as an unavoidable cost, apart from from luthiery skills... are you really "getting" more of anything? Third, often you pay extra for a name, does getting a "name" constitute "getting what you pay for"? Not just buying "Gibson", but paying an extra $100 - $2000 for a "Limited Edition", an ultra-deluxe-anniversary model, etc. It just goes to show that price points are a function of supply and demand, divorced from intrinsic value.

[Securb]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

Next time I'd rather sell it and get something "ready" out of the box.

For me there is nothing "out of the box" that works for me. From my high end guitars like my Les Paul to my budget imports they all have some type of mod.

A Squire will always be a Squire, and an Epi will always be an Epi.

There are a lot of guys out there like Gary Clark Jr that make that silver sound like platinum. I have played plenty of Epiphones that were fantastic axes. I don't have much experience with Squires so I will refrain from commenting on those. I do think you are selling Epiphones short.

[Brandenburg]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

I skimmed through most the post... not feeling good enough to read 2 pages of post

I upgraded a cheap guitar and still have to do a few things to make it awesome.. mainly i need to replace the nut,level a fret or 2 and a fret polish
locking tuners--check
tremolo with brass block--check
new electronics-- check.. I buy new electronics EVERY time I buy new pickups w/o exception.. I also use cloth covered wire and solid core wire
new pickups--check.. Generally speaking.. Anything is better than the cheap pickups.. I prefer Iron Gear pickups as they are exceptional quality for like 1/2 the cost of a comparable offering by SD or dimazio
proper setup--check
shielding-- check.. I actually showed my friend the effectiveness of a properly shielded guitar.. I turned my RG100es on 3 with the gain on 10..(i.e. pretty f*kin loud) stood 1 foot away from a 4x12.. maxed the guitar volume.. and took my hands off the springs.. and it was WHISPER QUIET.. Hell ,That impressed me too.. I use shielding tape and if needed ,i used stripped solid core wire and solder to connect the different cavities.. yea.. I also make sure everything is conductive via a DMM

[Snake Aces]

Re: making cheap guitars awesome

There are a lot of guys out there like Gary Clark Jr that make that silver sound like platinum. I have played plenty of Epiphones that were fantastic axes. I don't have much experience with Squires so I will refrain from commenting on those. I do think you are selling Epiphones short.

Gary Clark Jr is awesome, so is his tone.