Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

[MrTondo]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Wow, that close... I'm still in the Zebro camp. I am very curious how this will play out.

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Well this sure is neck and neck.

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

To me, a hybrid is something unexciting. It is nothing really new. The Z provides something very different than the current SD lineup.

[Nacho8807]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

What happens in the event of a tie?

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I was just thinking about that. We could do a second poll asking everyone if they would actually buy the pickup they didn't vote for.

[blueman335]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Duncan needs a neck HB with the high-end, clarity, and versatility of a hybrid.

[ItsaBass]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

The way I think about the whole thing, this is not about making something different; it's about making something good. Tone is the aim here.

But even accepting the "more different" reasoning for voting one way or the other, the hybrid is actually the "more different" option IMO. It would be far different than any neck humbucker Duncan makes or has ever made, both tonally and techincally (having heavily mismatched coils, and in the neck position). We know what hybrids are like; the tone is somewhat predictable, and extremely desirable IMO. I think a lot of people would love this pickup, and it would add a significantly different flavor to a lot of axes out there.

The Zebro, on the other hand is only different in that it will use trimmed-down bobbins instead of full-length bobbins. We have no actual knowledge of what advantage this could possibly offer. It's nothing but a possibly meaningless technical spec for the Custom Shop to be held to. It seems like it's trying to be different just for the sake of being different, not for any specific tonal reason...and even then, it's not really that different anyhow. It's just an adjustable version of a Mustang bass pickup. How different could that really sound than other options out there? And if it does sound that different, will it really be in a good way? I certainly am no fan of hum-canceling singles, and I know I am not the only one. How many people would actually want one of these things for any reason other than just screwing around? I.e. who will buy it because they think it will actually give them something tonally that they can't get now?

The hybrid would also sell better to the general public IMO, and would make the '59/C into a factory set. It has far better chance to make it as a potential addition to the standard catalog (which would be a first for a forum-designed pickup). I would take far more pride in having something that we designed actually accepted into the standard Duncan catalog than I would in having designed some one-run-and-done pickup that ends up in only a dozen guitars throughout history.

Also, the hybrid option includes a possibly awesome bridge pickup that is different than the current '59/C: a slightly thinned-out, scrappier '59/C Hybrid. Yummy.

The hybrid also retains the stock "sleeper" look. That matters to me, and maybe to others too. I'd probably never use something that looked like the Zebro in any of my current guitars.

Not only does the hybrid fill a much larger hole in SD's catalog in terms of TONE (which is what it's all about), but it would benefit them more in the business sense, as they could probably sell loads of the things to "regular" (i.e. non-Forum) customers. I.e., we could give something back to the company for dealing with our idiotic asses at all.

Also, I think that naming the hybrid a hybrid is turning some people off. It isn't really going to be a hybrid of existing coils; it's going to be a purpose-made neck match to the new bridge pickup and the existent '59/C Hybrid. While we probably want it to have significantly mismatched coils in order to match the '59/C bridge pickup's character, it is not being made simply by putting together existing production coils. "Mismatched coils" are not the same thing as a "hybrid." Hybrids by definition take their parts from two other pickups. "Mismatching coils" don't need to come from two already existent pickups; they can be designed and wound specifically to have that mismatch. The neck pickup is more than likely just going to be something along the lines of an underwound '59/C, not a true hybrid, made by pilfering coils from existing pickups.

What really would have made this much easier to decide on would have been to have the CS build and demo one set of each...and then to have voted. Something tells me that if we already had demos of each potential set, the hybrid option would be smoking the Zebro option in the vote.

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I was just thinking about that. We could do a second poll asking everyone if they would actually buy the pickup they didn't vote for.

Yeah, may have to do something like that.

[DreX]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I would need to know how much each would cost before deciding.

It would also be nice to hear the Custom Shop's opinion on either pickup. I'm sure if we were communicating with them on a one to one basis for a typical custom shop order, they would offer feedback to the individual customer, but so far we've heard nothing from them about either design.

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Personally, I want a p90-like humbucker. I don't care about the cosmetics so long as it works tonally. Originally the idea was to combine a couple ideas which are road tested and to provide a sonic niche duncan does not have. Personally, there is a 0% chance I would buy a hybrid, and unless I am killed before it comes out, a 100% chance I would get a p90 voiced SD humbucker. The hybrid is IMO something that is pretty much achievable with off the shelf pickups. Personally, I'd rather have something that I can't just do myself. (I can make a hybrid)

Going down in history as a first forum design to get made production by keeping things bland and pedestrian (and hybrids are kind of pedestrian) is in my opinion a waste of an opportunity to get something unique and awesome made. I would love to see something tasteful, but unique get made.

[DarkMatter]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Having feedback from the Custom Shop is a great idea at this point. I'll prepare an email tomorrow. What questions do you all have? I was going to ask about general feasibility and potential price differences. What else?

[KeeperOS]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Well, I think this goes without saying but in case it falls off through the cracks, any caveats, warnings and limitations we should expect. Flexibility with each design as in ability for them to actually shape the tone as intended with as little "interference" as possible. We do want the design with the best chances of hitting the intended mark after all.

Also, right now it isn't "almost" a tie, it IS a tie, one vote over or bellow doesn't make a lick of difference. I was also thinking if, like the previous Vitange Hot/Moderate Modern, we'd be able to somehow combine the two but I just can't find it. A lot want the hybrid for the neck and it would never make a good set with a zebro bridge, the other way around (to which I'd be more accepting myself) would alienate just as many people.

Asking how dead-set we are on either choice would be beneficial by making a 2nd poll with multiple choices, put them both there and ask which ones (as in, either or both) would we be willing to get, that would gauge interest that translates to actual "sales". A lot of people might prefer one design without being against the other.
I do think however that it'd be a good idea to delay that until after we've had feedback from the CS.

[Myaccount876]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

Definitely ask the Custom Shop for pros and cons for the design. One vote should not decide one over the other - and I voted for the Zebro.

One thing I would've done though with this poll is make the voting transparent - so we know who voted for what. That will make sure no votes come from multi-accounts made just to inflate votes. I would like to think this forum is better than that, but what has happened before in one of the Ultimate Axe competition was people begging for votes through PMs, and multi accounts to try and engineer an outcome. Maybe a response from the custom shop, some info, and then a re-vote through a transparent poll?

[DreX]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

I'd like to see who votes for what so that we can see if they actually bought the pickup they had voted for a month or two down the road.

[blueman335]

Re: Forum design vote #6 (Choose wisely)

The way I think about the whole thing, this is not about making something different; it's about making something good. Tone is the aim here.

But even accepting the "more different" reasoning for voting one way or the other, the hybrid is actually the "more different" option IMO. It would be far different than any neck humbucker Duncan makes or has ever made, both tonally and techincally (having heavily mismatched coils, and in the neck position). We know what hybrids are like; the tone is somewhat predictable, and extremely desirable IMO. I think a lot of people would love this pickup, and it would add a significantly different flavor to a lot of axes out there.

The Zebro, on the other hand is only different in that it will use trimmed-down bobbins instead of full-length bobbins. We have no actual knowledge of what advantage this could possibly offer. It's nothing but a possibly meaningless technical spec for the Custom Shop to be held to. It seems like it's trying to be different just for the sake of being different, not for any specific tonal reason...and even then, it's not really that different anyhow. It's just an adjustable version of a Mustang bass pickup. How different could that really sound than other options out there? And if it does sound that different, will it really be in a good way? I certainly am no fan of hum-canceling singles, and I know I am not the only one. How many people would actually want one of these things for any reason other than just screwing around? I.e. who will buy it because they think it will actually give them something tonally that they can't get now?

The hybrid would also sell better to the general public IMO, and would make the '59/C into a factory set. It has far better chance to make it as a potential addition to the standard catalog (which would be a first for a forum-designed pickup). I would take far more pride in having something that we designed actually accepted into the standard Duncan catalog than I would be to have designed some one-run-and-done pickup that ends up in only a dozen guitars throughout history.

Also, the hybrid option includes a possibly awesome bridge pickup that is different than the current '59/C: a slightly thinned-out, scrappier '59/C Hybrid. Yummy.

The hybrid also retains the stock "sleeper" look. That matters to me, and maybe to others too. I'd probably never use something that looked like the Zebro in any of my current guitars.

Not only does the hybrid fill a much larger hole in SD's catalog in terms of TONE (which is what it's all about), but it would benefit them more in the business sense, as they could probably sell loads of the things to "regular" (i.e. non-Forum) customers. I.e., we could give something back to the company for dealing with our idiotic asses at all.

Well said.