ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

[JeffB]

This seems to be the new "hot lick" in speaker pairings. Bogner and others are doing it.

In theory, it sounds good to me. I like the midrange complexity of the V30, and the low mids and woody-ness of the G12m. The G12m should help mellow out the v30 spike. Right now I run H3070th with a EVHg12m. The H30 can just be so overbearing in the lows and low mids.

In this case I would be pairing a creamback m65 with a V30, so wattage ratings are similar.

[allbutromeo]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

Creamback/V30 pairing is very good. The slight mid scoop in the 65 really balances out the mid spike in the v30

[some_dude]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

I like mixing a V30 loaded cab with a G12M loaded cab.

I don't like mixing V30s and G12Ms in the same cab.

YMMV.

[MetalManiac]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

Are you kidding me man??Thats one of the best pairings possible. V30/G12H30 is a famous pairing. Whats with you anyway??

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

I have a Marshall cab with two G12EVH's and two Vintage 30's in an X pattern, and I love how it sounds! The V30's dominate a bit, but the EVH's fill the sound with chunky low mids, and add a hint of grit that V30's don't have on their own.



I much prefer this combo than the V30/T-75 pairing or the all-T-75 setup that I had previously.

IME, the G12M Creambacks sound more along the lines of the EVH's or the Heritage M's than they do compared to the standard Chinese G12M's. The G12M Creambacks should pair nicely with V30's, IMO, but honestly, so should the standard Chinese Greenbacks, lol.

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

Right now I run H3070th with a EVHg12m.

How does the disparity in efficiency work out? Does the H30 dominate? I'm thinking about getting an EVH G12M to pair with a Vintage 30. Or should I not given the efficiency disparity?

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

For what it's worth, the Dr. Z 2x12 I had for a while came stock with this setup. I trust the ears on those guys to know that it was a magic combination.

[JeffB]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

How does the disparity in efficiency work out? Does the H30 dominate? I'm thinking about getting an EVH G12M to pair with a Vintage 30. Or should I not given the efficiency disparity?

The H30 dominates , but the difference between two h30s and the mix is still significant. They complement each other fairly well. The evh helps with the woodier tone, opens the top end up, and helps mellow out the stiff low end and pokey ear stabbing mids of the h30.. Its almost kinda sorta like an old Fane type of tone.


And thanks to all who have contributed so far to the thread about the v30/g12m pairing. Any and all opinions welcome.

[jeremy]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

matchless ran a g12h/g12m combo, it was their go to setup for years starting in the early 90's, hell maybe even '89 or something like that. the g12h dominates but the lower efficiency g12m still adds a fair amount of flavor. always remember if they are mic'ing your cab, the sound guy is probably not gonna mic both speakers and even if they do to appease you, they probably arent going to use both sounds.

i can see a v30/g12m combo being pretty cool

[vinta9e]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

Call me a boring, unfashionable, close minded, grumpy old fart for preferring to run just a simple quad of the same kind.
Do you wear funky shirts because Herr Bogner himself does, too?

The whole mix & match approach is IMHO futile effort as much as a dog chasing its own tail.
I base my opinion on the dichotomy that either your rig is a balanced system that produces the right amounts of each frequency, or it is not / does not.

In the first case, you don't need to fill out anything except filling the venue with sound.
In the second case, you don't need to fill out anything except maybe the return form for your last gear purchase. What you need to do is identify and swap/mod/remove the component that upsets the balance and only proceed to rock out after the issue has been resolved.

One thing that seems a stinky taboo about mixed-driver cabs is phasing. If you want all your speakers to produce coherent waveforms, e.g. play in (almost) perfect sync, you gotta keep 'em matched. Otherwise, phase shifts are going to litter your tone with a rash of interference artifacts. What it means, in layman's language, is that miking up and mixing a heterogeneously loaded cab is a pain in the arse.

If you need just a simple bump or a dip in the low mids, high mids, mid mids, presence, patch in an equalizer - that's a job they've been designed to do and excel at. Alternatively, a tubescreamer, a JB or even one of DiMarzio's, a mark x boogie, a proper JCM800, many Les Pauls and SGs often have an inherent bump somewhere around the middle of their emission spectrum. Use them to your advantage.

You cannot dial out interference artifacts with an EQ just like you can't thread a needle with a bulldozer.

Meanwhile, I totally get it how listening to the 3D sound of a mixed-driver setup might seem cool in person but try capturing it on a record and placing it in a band mix and you'll see what I'm on about. In other words, I don't reckon multiple speaker types are necessary for achieving the depth of sound you're looking for. I'm done picking on you. Hope it's some food for thought. My rant is now over except for the punch line.

Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away.

[Van Noord]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

V30s definitely have abundant mids, but I wouldn't call them "complex"! Lol!

The V30 is very efficient, and that, combined with its blanket of midrange can be dominate next to other speakers.

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

Call me a boring, unfashionable, close minded, grumpy old fart for preferring to run just a simple quad of the same kind.
Do you wear funky shirts because Herr Bogner himself does, too?

The whole mix & match approach is IMHO futile effort as much as a dog chasing its own tail.
I base my opinion on the dichotomy that either your rig is a balanced system that produces the right amounts of each frequency, or it is not / does not.

In the first case, you don't need to fill out anything except filling the venue with sound.
In the second case, you don't need to fill out anything except maybe the return form for your last gear purchase. What you need to do is identify and swap/mod/remove the component that upsets the balance and only proceed to rock out after the issue has been resolved.

One thing that seems a stinky taboo about mixed-driver cabs is phasing. If you want all your speakers to produce coherent waveforms, e.g. play in (almost) perfect sync, you gotta keep 'em matched. Otherwise, phase shifts are going to litter your tone with a rash of interference artifacts. What it means, in layman's language, is that miking up and mixing a heterogeneously loaded cab is a pain in the arse.

[...]

Meanwhile, I totally get it how listening to the 3D sound of a mixed-driver setup might seem cool in person but try capturing it on a record and placing it in a band mix and you'll see what I'm on about. In other words, I don't reckon multiple speaker types are necessary for achieving the depth of sound you're looking for. I'm done picking on you. Hope it's some food for thought. My rant is now over except for the punch line.

Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away.

I'm going to say that, even though I like how my cab sounds, I agree with this for the most part.

Pairing speakers will definitely present some problems that a single kind of speakers will not. For starters, as you walk across the front of your cab, you will notice it sounding SIGNIFICANTLY different if you stand more towards the left or right of it, which can sometimes make it difficult to dial in a sound. This happens to an extent on any cab because sometimes you're hearing the speakers off axis, sometimes on axis, etc., but I do feel it geats greatly exaggerated when you have different speakers on each side of the cab.

You will have to choose one of the two kinds of speakers to be mic'ed at a gig or recording, or go through the trouble of phase-aligning two mics to truly represent the sound of your cab as a whole.

That being said, though, the phase issues that might come from mixing different speakers while standing in front of the cab are negligible, IMO. A cab with four (or whatever number) of speakers will have a significantly different sound depending on which speaker you mic, even if they're all the same kind of speaker. It's just the nature of the beast. Recording engineers will not uncommonly experiment with mic'ing all four speakers in a 4x12 to see which sounds the best. Surprisingly, they all tend to sound noticeably different. Cab construction, imperfections in the wood the cab is made of all play a roll. Even many "straight" cabs have a slight angle to the baffle. Sound is not bouncing off their back at the same rate... that, and add the fact that you'll VERY RARELY be standing in a place where all speakers from the cab are hitting your ears at EXACTLY the same time with sound.

To be completely honest, I like my cab. It's unique-sounding. I don't see the EVH/V30 mix very often, and I think it works well... BUT it does have issues that other cabs do not. I like how the V30 sounds mic'd, but I prefer how the EVH sounds in the room (not that I dislike the V30 in the room). The mix in the room is cool, though, and, even though I must admit I have not worked as hard placing a mic in front of the EVH as I have with the V30, I know that if I throw an SM57 in front of one of the V30's, the result is probably going to come out familiar-sounding and workable.

[Van Noord]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

When picking speakers, you need to consider two other factors. Guitar pickup(s) and amp.

I like a heavy dose of mids in my tone.

So, I use V30s. Which i would deem approx. 8/10 midrange level. Combine that with Strats equipped with around 5-7/10 midrange rating humbuckers.
The amps gain channel I keep at 5-6/10. (High gain modern Marshall sound)

IMHO these three things are important when looking at your midrange settings.
I've found too much mids from both the amp and either pickup or speaker can be overwhelming and harsh.

The smoothness and moderate output of my pickups, combined with the average amp midrange level setting and crisp, biting V30s yield give me what I look for.

[astrozombie]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

G12M is the greenback right?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: ok....next question...G12M and a V30?....who has done it, how did you like it?

Yes. In today's lingo "Greenback" usually means a G12M25 (or G12M20). Originally Greenback magnet covers were also used on many G12H30s, but today we don't usually use the term to describe G12H30s.

"Blackbacks" from the 70s can be either G12Ms or G12Hs.