Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

[blueman335]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

If you switch wires/lugs on the volume pots, that'll give independent volumes controls, and you can blend how much you want of each PU. With dependent volume controls, you don't get much flexibility.

[Deteroblix]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

I know this is an old post, but I have the same issue with my LP. I have a Seth Lover in the Bridge and a Stewmac golden age in the Neck and the nasal/out of phase sound has definitely taken over the middle switch position. I'm guessing it's b/c these two pickups are pretty mis-matched. But not entirely too sure.

[Clint 55]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

HH middle is just honk.

[David Garner]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

What pickups? It sounds like a normal PAF middle position to me. The honk is half the point.

[Mincer]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

I know this is an old post, but I have the same issue with my LP. I have a Seth Lover in the Bridge and a Stewmac golden age in the Neck and the nasal/out of phase sound has definitely taken over the middle switch position. I'm guessing it's b/c these two pickups are pretty mis-matched. But not entirely too sure.

Welcome to the forum!

Most likely, they are out of phase. Pick one pickup (try the Stew Mac) and flip the hot and ground. Let us know if this works.

[Clint 55]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

Out of phase is way lower volume with ultra honk. In phase in parallel is the same volume but honk.

[freefrog]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

To answer to the original question, I'd attribute the mid position honkiness of LP's to...

-the position of pickups and scale, with the related comb filtering. http://www.till.com/articles/PickupMixing/index.html
-the maple cap on a mahogany body: it tends to create a mid boosted acoustic resonance with a narrow dip around 500hz (= more or less a notch filter)
-the capacitance of inner wiring: there's a triple lenght of wire between the volume / tone pots and the switch, across the body... and braided shielded wire is highly capacitive (268pF per meter, according to my measurements). It contributes to shift down the resonant peak and to cut high frequencies / to enhance the high mids more than in guitars with their selector close to their pots.

The two first sets of specs can't be modified, obviously. The third parm is tweakable: wiring a LP with low capacitance inner cables would / will make it sound differently, especially in the middle position (I've already "tuned" the sound of the mid position in a LP thx to this parameter, for the record).

FWIW, YMMV, etc.

[Clint 55]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

Neck bridge position is just honk.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

I have a Gibson 60RI with A3 custombuckers, which are very much the Seth/Brobucker/PAF honk type and the middle position is more so. Similar effect with a Brobucker and 59/A4, and similar with Skinnerburst A3 set. Not out of phase and not wrong, just the combination of two honking pickups.

[freefrog]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

As a footnote to my previous attempt to share, I'll add this:

if middy honky pickups are mounted in other Gibson models (SG, Flying V, ES), they won't have the same honkiness than in a LP, IME. I attribute that to the reasons that I've evoked.
But it should be possible to mimic partly the "LP mid honk" signature by tuning the LRC filtering at work when the two pickups are enabled. It would only require a handful of cheap components... :-)

[Deteroblix]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

Welcome to the forum!

Most likely, they are out of phase. Pick one pickup (try the Stew Mac) and flip the hot and ground. Let us know if this works.

Will do, thank you for the tip.

[ErikH]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

Two pickups, in parallel, at vastly different positions under the strings. That's how they sound. Now, in my LP I have a Super Distortion in the bridge and the stock '57 Classic in the neck (tone pot disconnected). It still has the honk but it's more usable.

[Mincer]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

I don't think 2 normal, in-phase pickups have a honky sound...not compared to out of phase pickups. I'd check that first, as I don't know the phase of the Stew Mac pickups.

[Clint 55]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

It's hard to describe, but it seems like the more character, detail, and transparency each pickup has, the less honk it will have. For example, when I do neck/bridge position on My Fralin with a hum and 2 mini hums, there's almost no honk and you can barely tell it's neck/bridge position. It's really incredible.

[Larioso]

Re: Why does the middle position on my Les Paul sound so honky?

I never quite liked middle position on my LP - some kind of sharp "plonk" almost single coily - if that is what you call honk.
I think it depends on how strong pickups you have and how they are balanced, but could be wrong.

If I turn down neck pickup, then it starts to sound alright.
This would in principle be the same as having a stronger pickup in bridge, and also adjusted close to strings so that comes out that way.
Like many like - switching to bridge for solo and more power.

I watched loads of videos, like Gary More, which I have on Montrieux festival some years on dvd.
He often uses middle position, but no honk there.

My theory is that if bridge is clearly stronger pickup - then it will sound less as you say honk.
Or that bridge is adjusted to be stronger than neck.

On my Shawbucker Tele though, I quite like how it was as delivered. Middle position works on that.
If they were called T1 and T2 as pickups.

My Squier Tele Vintage Modified with Fender wide range in neck, and Duncan design in bridge - also widely different sounding pickup - works in middle.

Probably some phasing and cancellation stuff going on too - and sometimes for the good, sometimes not.

I saw some YT on Peter Green out of phase mod - where they had to fix with volume knobs a bit how they sum up.

Interesting discussion though, I will follow...