Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

[hydro]

One of the guys in my band just bought a used Fender super reverb. Silverface, probably 70s I am guessing, looks stock, in the 4x10 combo configuration.


He used it at rehearsal last night and it sounded good, but seemed underpowered for 45 tube watts. Granted, me and the 3rd guitar player have 4x12 cabs driven by 50watt tube heads (Bassman and Express 5:50+). So this isn't entirely surprising, but what I'm trying to figure out is:

1) Could this be tubes or electronics?

2) Maybe the speakers are not very efficient (they look like stock Fender speakers).

He probably needs it worked over by a tech, but I am a little concerned that he won't get much more volume out of it, regardless. He has another larger amp, but man the sound of this thing is great.

I guess we could all turn down, but that's not really likely..... :

[PFDarkside]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Just think, that amp is 40 years old. The likelihood of caps drying up, a transformer being damaged is getting higher, and output tubes are always suspect. I'm not sure just how loud you are referring to, but I think a trip to the tech will have him smiling.

[hydro]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Yeah he just checked and he thinks it's a '73. Not sure how much work, if any, has been done to it.

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

One of the guys in my band just bought a used Fender super reverb. Silverface, probably 70s I am guessing, looks stock, in the 4x10 combo configuration.


He used it at rehearsal last night and it sounded good, but seemed underpowered for 45 tube watts. Granted, me and the 3rd guitar player have 4x12 cabs driven by 50watt tube heads (Bassman and Express 5:50+). So this isn't entirely surprising, but what I'm trying to figure out is:

1) Could this be tubes or electronics?

2) Maybe the speakers are not very efficient (they look like stock Fender speakers).

He probably needs it worked over by a tech, but I am a little concerned that he won't get much more volume out of it, regardless. He has another larger amp, but man the sound of this thing is great.

I guess we could all turn down, but that's not really likely..... :

What?!?!?!? That amp has a TON wrong with it... a properly running Super Reverb should literally destroy everyone within the beam vicinity and with 4 "10s... your beaming everywhere.

I hope this guy has a good amp tech because that SR is going to go to crap from here on out... might take 6 months, might take 6 weeks or 6 years... but the components of the amp are clearly dying.

Unless it's been modded to be quiet... but I highly doubt it's been modded to be quiet.

[ItsaBass]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Supers are loud, but they have their limits. They should keep up with a 50W half stack okay, but keep in mind that there are two of them that he's trying to keep up with (played by guys who admittedly play too ****ing loudly and won't turn down), and also keep in mind that 10's cut differently than the 12" guitar speakers that most people are used to these days.

First, try the amp alone, and see if it really is quiet, or if it is just being smeared out by your pair of half stacks. If it really seems quiet, do the simple things that you can do without going to an amp guy. Pull all the tubes and put them on a tube tester (if you play tube amps, just invest in one). Next, have the speakers looked at; they can be re-coned and/or re-magnetized if needed. If the tubes and speakers seem fine, then take it to an amp dude and have him see if something is up with any of the other components.

Something tells me that your band is simply too loud for the amp. Pipe it through an appropriately rate extension cab, and he might be able to keep up better. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Super is in perfect working order, though. IMO, one should do what I listed above for any new amp anyhow, so might as well.

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Just think, that amp is 40 years old. I think a trip to the tech will have him smiling.

+ another!!!

[hydro]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Yeah I mean he has a 50 watt Marshall half stack but I guess all of us were expecting a bit more power from the super reverb. Sounds like he should hit the tech before he starts looking at mods or different speakers.

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

The SR is pushing 4 speakers with a max sensitivity of 95db. The other two amps are pushing 4 speakers each with minimum sensitivity of 97dbs and probably more.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

supers aren't THAT loud anyway. My twin is a ton and a half louder and cleaner than my buddies' sf super and i dont have particuarly efficient speakers (texas heats).
But they should be pretty loud cos if it is running properly it still should be able to pump out an old skool 45watts rms...however (and im assuming he has done the basics and got fresh tubes and had the amp looked over by a tech and replaced the 40 year old caps etc) the old blue sticker speakers (i think they are oxfords?) are not very efficient, which i think is why a lot of people like the super cos you can actually get it to break up a bit before the paint is peeling off the walls. Still...if he wants more grunt, more efficient speakers are the way to go.
This of course is based on the assumption that he has actually got the super working properly re:tubes, caps etc.

[ItsaBass]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Gibson175 is right about the speakers and about the tone and headroom of the amp. Supers are loud but not that loud...and they excel at playing dirty without busting ear drums. They're kind of like the next step up in headroom from a Deluxe. I just think the amp isn't really the ticket for your band. I would not mess with the original speakers, myself. Silverfaces are getting more and more desirable as they age, as people are priced out of blackfaces, and as people finally realize that silverfaces were actually pretty good amps after all. Problem is, many have been modded all to hell by now, and it's regrettable. IMO, if the amp doesn't sound right for the band, then don't tweak it into oblivion trying to making it something it is not. Just pass it along to someone who wants that sound and can use it, and who won't feel the need to compromise the originality of the amp. The other reasonable option is to unplug the stock speakers and run through an outboard cab instead, to get a more modern tone.

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

My Super Reverb is insanely loud... louder than a JCM800 any day... but it has a 15" D130F and a Showman transformer.

I was always under the impression that it was actually not as loud as one with a 4x10 since the ohm load is now 8 instead of 2 but who knows?

I agree that a Fender Twin is louder but the harmonic distortion created by the more muscular sounding Super Reverb really gives each watt a little more oomph.

I just have sensitive hearing... a lot of 4x12 cabs are bass heavy and so, that doesn't run me out of the room like a Fender combo amp such as a Fender Twin. The piercing clean tone of a Twin will rattle my skull and give me actual pain... I can handle a lot of 4x12 cabs with 50 watt heads without wincing and grimacing. The midrange of most Super Reverbs just cuts through flesh and bone like butter IMHO, YMMV I guess.

I have never in my life considered a properly running Super Reverb to be even remotely quiet or unable to compete in a band setting with the loudest of drummers.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

My Super Reverb is insanely loud... louder than a JCM800 any day... but it has a 15" D130F and a Showman transformer.

I was always under the impression that it was actually not as loud as one with a 4x10 since the ohm load is now 8 instead of 2 but who knows?

if your 15 is efficient (and lets face it, it is a JBL!) it will be louder than 4 lower efficiency speakers. 4 speakers purely shares the wattage of the amp between 4 so none of them are working as hard as one speaker.
And trannies make a huge difference. That is the bit that is driving the speakers.

re: the op's situation. The super in that context is trying to compete with other amps that have not only nore wattage, but also bigger and more efficient speakers that also have the extra 6db of bass that purely comes from having a closed back cab so the amps dont have to work as hard. Bass frequencies suck up the headroom in an amp by an order of magnitude over treble waves. All this stuff adds up, big time.

If that super was mine, id just make sure that the tubes are strong, the caps are operating as originally specced and then swap out 2 or more speakers for something punchier and louder than the oxfords. Swapping speakers is a reversible mod and the other stuff is just routine maintenance.

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

One way to get some idea of the amp's condition is to determine if the amp sounds mush-y at lower volumes, or if the lower volumes give clearer, tighter sound. Many old silver-face Fender amps simply have never had the servicing over the years and begin to sound mush-y at lower volume levels.

As has been mentioned, good power tubes and new filter caps are the first step, assuming they haven't been changed in recent years. There is also the issue of the rectifier type ... a tube rectifier can be desireable for some, less-so for others. If the user mostly plays humbucker-equipped instruments, a solid-state rectifier may be an improvement, and the same applies for single-coil players seeking more clean headroom. I believe the Super Reverbs featured both types of rectification at different times, but I'm not sure what year they changed from tube to s/s.

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Some great info here ...

http://fenderguru.com/amps/super-reverb

.

[hydro]

Re: Fender Super Reverb sounds underpowered?

Thanks for all the input and info from everyone, much appreciated.

My band sort of has two sound configurations; "large footprint" where we bring the big iron, and "small footprint" when we play stuff like in-stores or really small clubs, etc. He needed a smaller amp for those types of gigs, but it also seems like it ought to be able to roll with the big boys too, given the wattage. But many excellent points made about caps, tubes and I did not even think about the rectifier tube. He just bought the thing and his wallet is hurting a little, but I feel better recommending him to go to a tech now.