Speakers for a Mesa

[dave74]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

Yeah good point Bill,,,,those would basically anchor-down an already very weighty combo.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

I dont own a roadking, but I do own a stiletto which is bright in nature.

c90 is a great speaker for mesas. Ive owned tremoverb, rectoverb and stiletto. If you find the od isnt what your looking for, try some jjs to tame it


v30s are also great with mesa. Theres a reason a lot come with either c90 or v30, it works.

Now if you wanna look elsewhere, try a creamback which has characteristics of v30 mixed with g12h30 (75 watt).

More neutral, go with classic lead 80.

If you have the cash, best speaker hands down I played was a evh 12l black label.

Thanks for the info here. I'm certainly interested in the EV as well, just not so interested in hefting it around! (I wonder how much Zakk Wylde's 4x12s weigh? )

I apologize for the noob-ness of my preamp tube knowledge. Both you and Bill (and countless others online) recommend tuning a Mesa through tube choices. How do JJs differ from the stock Mesa branded tubes? (There are only 3 tube plants now, right?) My understanding is that V1 has the most effect on the tone, and Mesa has advised that the Cathode Follower positions (V3 and V4 on my amp) should be Chinese manufacturer to reduce the chance of intermittent drop out.

What would be the "top 3" preamp tubes to try?

For power tubes, how do you select non-Mesa branded tubes since there's is no adjustable bias?

(Kind of funny, on my old Princeton Reverb I have experimented with speakers, tubes, removing the feedback resistor, changing a coupling cap... on the Mesa it's just as it left the factory)

[JeffB]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

Try any of the following in gain stages
Jj 83s
Jj 83mg
Svetlana
Tung sol ri
Ehx
Mullard 4004 ri
Golden Lion/Preferred series/ruby/7025

Cathode follower
Jj83s
Ehx
Svetlana
Jj803
ShugangB

PI
Any of the JJs
Sovtek LPS
Mullard ecc83 RI

The sino/shugang tubes are all very grainy/fizzy in gain stages (the 7025 above is an exception).almost anything else will improve that issue.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

Thanks Jeff!

[some_dude]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

If I were in your position I'd be inclined to run the RK combo on top of a Recto 2x12. Cleans through the open back combo, crunch through the closed back 2x12, leads through both.



That said, I f*cking love the Fillmore FM-75 that came in my Rectoverb:25 combo.

It's more harmonically complex than the V30s I'm used to. Kind of like the harmonic content of a G12M-25, but the punchy mids of a of a V30. It's very rich and fills in around the gain, which makes turning down the gain sound less stiff/dry. I make no promises since tone is subjective, but if you're looking to just swap speakers I'd consider this as an option. If possible, maybe check out a Rectoverb combo so you can hear the speaker in action.



For chunky, chugging riffs closed back cabs are where it's at... but for lower gain crunch and lead I really dig open back cabs.

[chadd]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

Combo or head?

Head and avatar cab

[Adieu]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

It seems like on the used market 4x12 cabs are far more available and almost the same price as 2x12 cabs.

Duh.

People get old, lazy, less fit, and/or married.

Downsizing comes at a premium.


PS a V30/MC90 2x12 cab is a thing of beauty. Also, if you have a 50w head or a 100-120watter that allows you to pull a pair of power tubes for half-wattage, you can wire it to allow you to use EITHER OR BOTH (just gotta use 8ohm speakers if its a Mesa amp)

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

I apologize for the noob-ness of my preamp tube knowledge. Both you and Bill (and countless others online) recommend tuning a Mesa through tube choices. How do JJs differ from the stock Mesa branded tubes? (There are only 3 tube plants now, right?) My understanding is that V1 has the most effect on the tone, and Mesa has advised that the Cathode Follower positions (V3 and V4 on my amp) should be Chinese manufacturer to reduce the chance of intermittent drop out.

What would be the "top 3" preamp tubes to try?

For power tubes, how do you select non-Mesa branded tubes since there's is no adjustable bias?

For power tubes, most of the reputable tube vendors will know what ranges are best for a Mesa amp. The Mesa tubes are pretty good, best warranty in the biz. Their Siemens EL34 is great. Other than Mesa, I like the Winged C/S.E.D. 6L6 and El34s and use them in several of my Mesa amps. Love the JJ EL84s, but I don't care for their big bottles in Mesa combos. Winged Cs are getting hard to find and expensive.

For preamp tubes, I like the Mesa tubes. The E-H 12AX7 is good, nicely clear and bright. The JJs will be darker; a full set of JJs in my DC-3 was too dark. Swapping in a couple of E-H tubes brought it back to life. The Tung-Sol I bought was DOA, got a noisy replacement. I really liked the Groove Tubes GT-12AX7-M "Mullard" clone, but they could be great, or not...some would be too noisy for V1. Very creamy, perfect blend between E-H and JJ. Haven't tried the current Mullard branded tubes.

The Mesa SP12AX7 is a good choice for V1 when you need high gain and low noise. I have found them very reliable and consistent.

Also, you remarked about your RK I versus the RK II. I don't know if they can, but have you ever called them to see if a RK I could be factory-modded to II specs? Might be worth a dime to call.

Good luck!

Bill

[PFDarkside]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

Also, you remarked about your RK I versus the RK II. I don't know if they can, but have you ever called them to see if a RK I could be factory-modded to II specs? Might be worth a dime to call.

Good luck!

Bill

Thanks for the tube advice.

RKII is substantially different enough from RKI that it's not moddable. It even has an additional preamp tube.

I've got super GAS for Lonestar. I'd hate to take a bath on my RK, but a Lonestar/Stilletto combo would suit my current musical taste a bit better than the Road King, I think.

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

The Lonestar and Stiletto rig set was Andy Timmons rig for a number of years. Saw Andy perform at the Tacoma Guitar Show earlier this year and he was using a pair of Lonestars with his Signature Andy Timmons @ pedal; I think by JHS. GREAT player, great tone.

With all the talk about Rectos and Mark V Series amps, the Lonestar hides in the background a bit, but the Lonestar is a TERRIFIC amp.

Bill

[Ascension]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

For power tubes, most of the reputable tube vendors will know what ranges are best for a Mesa amp. The Mesa tubes are pretty good, best warranty in the biz. Their Siemens EL34 is great. Other than Mesa, I like the Winged C/S.E.D. 6L6 and El34s and use them in several of my Mesa amps. Love the JJ EL84s, but I don't care for their big bottles in Mesa combos. Winged Cs are getting hard to find and expensive.

For preamp tubes, I like the Mesa tubes. The E-H 12AX7 is good, nicely clear and bright. The JJs will be darker; a full set of JJs in my DC-3 was too dark. Swapping in a couple of E-H tubes brought it back to life. The Tung-Sol I bought was DOA, got a noisy replacement. I really liked the Groove Tubes GT-12AX7-M "Mullard" clone, but they could be great, or not...some would be too noisy for V1. Very creamy, perfect blend between E-H and JJ. Haven't tried the current Mullard branded tubes.

The Mesa SP12AX7 is a good choice for V1 when you need high gain and low noise. I have found them very reliable and consistent.

Also, you remarked about your RK I versus the RK II. I don't know if they can, but have you ever called them to see if a RK I could be factory-modded to II specs? Might be worth a dime to call.

Good luck!

Bill

On the speakers both my rigs seem to really like the WGS Retro 30. Have a bunch of different speakers on hand from several companies but keep coming back to that speaker with both my Boogies. GREAT crunch tones in particular with that speaker in my Blackstar 1/12 and the Subway!
Every single amp i have run a full set of JJ Preamp tubes in sounded like you threw a blanket over the amp. Just dark dull and lifeless!! The EH's are hot and clear but can be a little middy and bright. I am running a couple Tung Sols in both my Boogies in the Pres with a Sovetec LPS in the PI on both ( Subway Rocket and a .50 Cal + head). LOVED the tone of the very 1st of the reissue Mullards ( if you could find good ones!) but they all failed very quickly. The last round were just ok and the long plates have a tendency to be microphonic. On EL 84's I dropped a set of the new Mullards into my Subway rocket and REALLY like them in that amp. Gave it a good thick smooth full tone that had been lacking in the past and really woke that particular amp up.
Agreed on the real Wing C 34's. Looking for a good current production 6L right now not really happy with what i'm seeing.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

I found this video, it sums it up in under 5 minutes.

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Speakers for a Mesa

Good video.

My Mark V combo came with the C90. I wanted to add an extension cab, and on dealer's advice, ordered a 112 Wide-Body Closed-Back cab with the V30 as an option. This cab has a Thiele port in the front. I love this combination. I think it sounds better than the 412 V30 Recto cab I tried with a Mark V head. The combination of the open-back C90 with the closed-back V30 is a winner, and this is exactly how Mesa sets up thier 212 and 412 Road King cabs.

In fact, I found out that Mesa does not recommend using the C90 in a fully closed-back cab. They do use it in open-back cabs and ported cabs. The old 412 and 212 Half-Back cabs typically used them only in the open top. In the bottom half you'll find EVMs, V30s or even the 50-watt Black Shadow Vintage (by Jensen), but C90s in there are really rare.

My 35-watt DC-3 112 combo and my 212 Maverick both use V30s, and I like them. My Mark V:35 though, uses a C90. I called Mesa about replacing the C90, as I felt it was a bit harsh. But after a lengthy Q & A an discussion about my style (notably, I play clean A LOT!), the CSR seemed surprised that I would think about replacing the C90! We talked pros and cons of V30s, the Mesa Fillmore, and the Creamback 65 and 75. Maybe my C90 isn't broken in yet; I got lymphoma not too long after I bought it, and haven't used it much. The V30s in the Maverick and DC-3 have both been run at high volume, many times. I'm just going to try plugging in the V:35 into the DC-3s speaker and figure it out.

I will say that I really like using a mix of cabs/speakers. I usually use my 112 combos with a 112 EVM Thiele underneath. I use a Horizontal Recto V30 212 with the Maverick 212 combo. Then I have the Half-Back cabs. Best of both worlds.

BTW, a guy I knew on a different forum had a Maverick head an a matching 112 C90 Open-Back cab. He was so frustrated with it. I suggested going to a V30; he did, and it worked for him.

Let me know what you do. Good luck!

Bill