Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

[Mincer]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

Well, there ya go. I wonder if he deliberately dribbles the production out, and waits for the prices to start climbing. I guess that would be one way to do business. I was always interested to see how close the BYOC clone was, but I wouldn't have an original to compare to.

[Lewguitar]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

Well, there ya go. I wonder if he deliberately dribbles the production out, and waits for the prices to start climbing. I guess that would be one way to do business. I was always interested to see how close the BYOC clone was, but I wouldn't have an original to compare to.

Everyone in the know, including Bill, says the KTR is the original and sounds identical.

But whether a player connects with the Klon and “gets what all the fuss is about”, I think totally depends on his or her playing style.

I’m a player who doesn’t shred or practice speed picking and arpeggios and all that, but who instead uses his pick and both hands to squeeze those notes out with my pick, and coax them to sustain with my left hand vibrato.

I’m very influenced by Jeff Beck, Clapton w/Cream, Santana...and BB King. Guys who really shape the note with their hands.

I think the Klon is made to order for guys who play like I do.

[jeremy]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

bills never charged crazy prices for his pedals. i know some guys that got their klon for $240 and they ktr was/is $270. its the second hand market that is crazy expensive. the guys that i know that have klons love them and have tried everything and swear they can tell the difference. no one wants to bring a klon to a gig if a cheap and easily replaceable soul food will do the exact same thing. the audience sure doesnt care

[Lewguitar]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

bills never charged crazy prices for his pedals. i know some guys that got their klon for $240 and they ktr was/is $270. its the second hand market that is crazy expensive. the guys that i know that have klons love them and have tried everything and swear they can tell the difference. no one wants to bring a klon to a gig if a cheap and easily replaceable soul food will do the exact same thing. the audience sure doesnt care

I don’t know if I could hear the diff between a Klon and a Soul Food listening to someone else comparing them.

But I was able to hear and feel a diff when I was comparing them.

And that’s what counts.

The Soul Food sounds good tho.

As mentioned, Bill had nothing to do with the high aftermarket prices and all the hype surrounding the Klon.

Nothing.

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

I've thought about cashing out of my gold horsey, but I like it and use it. Still, if I could get top dollar......it's tempting when I see them sell for $2500.

[jeremy]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

i know a few guys that used to have two klons. most have sold their backup (for stupid money) and bought a ktr as a backup

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

I love my klones. I'll probably never get to try a real one. The closest I've ever come to a real Klon was when Jeff Beck played the local casino in 2011. I was less than 5 feet from his pedalboard.

I can say that whatever part of the sound that translates through a home theatre system is there with my klones. The builder even tracked down a batch of the magic diodes.

I typically use it to push my dirty channel or another pedal for leads. It adds a bit of emphasis to the low mids and treble and I like a bit if it's own grit mixed in.

I tend to jump back and forth between the klones and Marshall Bluesbreaker based OD's.... or, I dig out the TL Pedals King Klon. Best if both worlds.

[Mincer]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

A question, since I am new to all of this....do the Klones that are out there do a component-by-component copy of a real Klon? Or do they try to 'improve' things, thereby changing the sound?

[Lewguitar]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

A question, since I am new to all of this....do the Klones that are out there do a component-by-component copy of a real Klon? Or do they try to 'improve' things, thereby changing the sound?

I think they try to do a component by component clone. Bill did not copyright or file documents to legally protect his Klon design apparently.

I know the PCE Aluminum Falcon I used to use and which Warren Haynes used was a direct copy of Bill’s circuit board lay out and Bill wrote to PCE and asked PCE to stop but he wouldn’t. David, the guy behind PCE, put their letters back and forth on Facebook and presented them as if Bill was the bad guy, but PCE did rip off Bill’s design.

Rubbed me the wrong way. David’s defense was a “you didn’t protect yourself so it’s perfectly legal for me to rip you off” sort of justification.

When I got my first Klon KTR I sold my Aluminum Falcons quite easily. They were very good...but the Klon KTR is slightly less grainy sounding. I like it better.

[Darg1911]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

A question, since I am new to all of this....do the Klones that are out there do a component-by-component copy of a real Klon? Or do they try to 'improve' things, thereby changing the sound?

Depends on the builder. The Soul Food, for example, isn't really a copy although it's similar.

The only remaining "mystery" to the pedal is the diodes. Bill Finnegan has claimed that only he has a NOS stash of a particular manufacturers diodes (1N34A's) and that, essentially, those and only those specific diodes make a Klon a Klon. Personally, I think the mystique of the Klon is well beyond cork sniffer territory. The new KTR, which is supposed to be the only real Klon, in cork sniffer terms, cant be. It's all surface mount with ceramic capacitors replacing the film caps used in the originals. "We" argue that the new PCB versions of older, point to point, hand wired amps are inferior and "we" even argue that the newer amps with surface mount components on wave soldered boards are inferior to the through-hole PCB designs that preceded them. I'm partly playing devils advocate here, but the way I see it, you cant have it both ways. Personally, I cant hear any more of a difference between a well regarded "klone" and an original Klon versus the newer KTR and an original Klon. And, in my one-to-one DIY clone, I cant hear any difference between 4 different pairs of germanium diodes, all matched within two or three hundreds of a volt of .35v (forward voltage drop). I'd have to build 4 versions exactly the same with the only difference being the different type, matched diodes and A-B it all to be sure ... I'm simply not that vested. I've played around enough to be skeptical of the specific diode thing. Then again, I don't have an original Klon at hand.

The point being, there are plenty of builders making component by component copies ... with one caveat ... aside from different brands or types of capacitors and resistors (of the same values as in the original, which the KTR is "guilty" of as well, and more) the difference comes down to the specific brand (and maybe type) of diodes. Whether that difference disqualifies the pedal from being a component-by-component copy/clone, I suppose, depends on how you look at it.

That said, some builders are also making versions of the circuit with what they may see as improvements. But if you want a "clone" there are reputable builders who make them and market them as clones.

[Mincer]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

This is interesting to me. So a Klone with PCB wiring will have differences with a real Klon, and even real PTP Klons have differences due to component tolerances. I would assume this goes with any clone of an old amp or effect. It is a matter of time (if it hasn't happened already) where modeling could model these differences, diode types, PTP/PCB construction, etc.
I have no side to take here, but I find this idea of something that is a mutually agreed 'holy grail' pedal has gotten this much attention.

[Lewguitar]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

In this interview ( https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...-bill-finnegan ) Bill claims there is no difference in sound between a Silver or Gold Klon or the KTR. He goes into the differences and then gives his reasons why those differences don’t change the sound.

My PCE Aluminum Falcons did sound better than the Soul Food to me, and my KTR sounds slightly better to me than the PCE AF1. Must be the magic diodes...Bill claims they are a must.

But in the interview he also goes into detail about the several years he spent sourcing capacitors and other components for the KTR and claims they make a difference too.

It’s a good interview.

Bill sells his products for a very reasonable price. He is not the one responsible for the high aftermarket prices or for the hype.

[Darg1911]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

Yeah, seen that before. And BF has since gone on to admit that the diodes are 1N34A's, from what I've read anyway. I don't think he has gone beyond that and mentioned the specific manufacturer. I give him all the credit in the world for coming up with an original circuit instead of doing another tube screamer tweak. He deserves that. Doesn't mean everything he says is gospel. I have a hard time envisioning him soldering leads onto surface mount capacitors for two years to audition them to pick just the right ones so they sound the same as the originals ... call me cynical. I believe he did it, but just to make sure that he couldn't hear a difference (or no more than a very subtle difference). But not for 2 years due to some audition and selection process.

About the diode thing ... he could run out of his magical diodes, buy a bunch of Russian D9E,J,V or whatever, measure and sort them for his desired forward voltage drop, remove the existing marking bands with acetone and re-paint them with black paint to match the look of the diodes he currently uses. All he would have to do is not say a word about it. Sales of the KTR wouldn't change in the least. Those who want a KTR, because it's the only real Klon, or for any other reason, would still go and get a KTR and nobody that got one would hear anything different to complain about.

I don't begrudge anyone buying a KTR or an original Klon for that matter. If that's what they want, that's what they want. It doesn't matter if there is a tangible difference, a subtle but perceived difference or just a flat out imaginary difference. All that matters is how it sounds (and feels) to the player and what he or she believes. I'm a cynical SOB and anything that I offer that is of a contrarian nature is only my opinion.

[Lewguitar]

Re: Has Bill Finnegan stopped making Klons again?

Yeah, seen that before. And BF has since gone on to admit that the diodes are 1N34A's, from what I've read anyway. I don't think he has gone beyond that and mentioned the specific manufacturer. I give him all the credit in the world for coming up with an original circuit instead of doing another tube screamer tweak. He deserves that. Doesn't mean everything he says is gospel. I have a hard time envisioning him soldering leads onto surface mount capacitors for two years to audition them to pick just the right ones so they sound the same as the originals ... call me cynical. I believe he did it, but just to make sure that he couldn't hear a difference (or no more than a very subtle difference). But not for 2 years due to some audition and selection process.

About the diode thing ... he could run out of his magical diodes, buy a bunch of Russian D9E,J,V or whatever, measure and sort them for his desired forward voltage drop, remove the existing marking bands with acetone and re-paint them with black paint to match the look of the diodes he currently uses. All he would have to do is not say a word about it. Sales of the KTR wouldn't change in the least. Those who want a KTR, because it's the only real Klon, or for any other reason, would still go and get a KTR and nobody that got one would hear anything different to complain about.

I don't begrudge anyone buying a KTR or an original Klon for that matter. If that's what they want, that's what they want. It doesn't matter if there is a tangible difference, a subtle but perceived difference or just a flat out imaginary difference. All that matters is how it sounds (and feels) to the player and what he or she believes. I'm a cynical SOB and anything that I offer that is of a contrarian nature is only my opinion.

Good. Because I just picked up a second KTR for my other pedalboard. Got one for both now.

I’m a bit less cynical than you because I do hear and sense a difference in Bill’s Klon compared to the four clones I’ve owned.