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2019 Gibson Lineup

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  • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

    Originally posted by Securb View Post
    I am in love with the Modern Double Cut but $4900 is way too rich for my blood.



    Dear gawd.... THAT ugly thing with its pale-azz fretboard and crud finish is not JUST 4 digits, but actually halfway to 5 digits???

    If somebody told me it was $799, I'd be like "huh good luck". But that's just appaling
    "New stuff always sucks" -Me

    Comment


    • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

      "But by revenue and unit count, Gibson’s market share has dramatically decreased, that’s where profit comes from and one of the reasons that Gibson has so much work to do if they want to stay in the game"

      you are operating under the assumption that Gibson guitar business plan objective is to increase revenues across the total market...that does not seem like a realistic objective...Gibson seems to be focusing on a segment of that total market and are saying that they are growing in that segment in revenue as well as profitability...that is good business...know who you are, who your customers are and put your focus there...
      could they be doing a better job at it...ABSOLUTELY...is Gibson guitar business segment a train wreck...ABSOLUTELY NOT...

      Comment


      • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

        Originally posted by Darg1911 View Post
        They didn't make an ES 335 faded "sub model". If you saw a minty ES 335 Studio for $600, you should have bought it and flipped it ...

        Lester not 335


        Looked like a 90s or early 2000's model, but didnt look too close
        "New stuff always sucks" -Me

        Comment


        • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

          Originally posted by Aceman View Post
          That's nice old man. And the facts of the market is there isn't anyone under 30 that feels that way.

          See, when you actually have 60 years of being the most sought after high end guitars, that would make sense. They really had more like 35....They certainly haven't been that since maybe Use Your Illusion or so....
          Yeah, true

          Back when I was i high school, we shot the kid with the Marshall stack and the Gibson SG dirty looks of envy, and sat on a bench fantaizing about what we wanted to get

          Ran into one of those broke-azz envying kids like 15 years later, dropped by for a beer and to catch up -- he's got a marshall and a gibson in his living room. But he was never a gearhead, he just got what he wanted as a kid once he could afford it.

          Me? I bought the Gibsons and was like "naaah" and flipped em.

          And that's about where that cutoff occurred.
          "New stuff always sucks" -Me

          Comment


          • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

            Having an MSRP of $4900 for the Gibson Modern Double Cut is akin to having a little Henry J. following you around... t-bagging you over and over while cackling out loud after you purchase it.

            I'm all for profit and such but there is a line... that price point is an intentional slap in the customer's face.

            Comment


            • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

              Originally posted by Adieu View Post
              Dear gawd.... THAT ugly thing with its pale-azz fretboard and crud finish is not JUST 4 digits, but actually halfway to 5 digits???

              If somebody told me it was $799, I'd be like "huh good luck". But that's just appaling
              You ever play one, or is this hatred based off mere speculation and aesthetics?
              You will never understand How it feels to live your life With no meaning or control And with nowhere left to go You are amazed that they exist And they burn so bright
              Whilst you can only wonder why

              Comment


              • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                Originally posted by justFred View Post

                you are operating under the assumption that Gibson guitar business plan objective is to increase revenues across the total market...
                Nope- simply pointing out that Gibson has lost significant marketshare, it is likely to lose more if they don't change, and if it continues, there is a point where the value of the brand will exceed revenue. That's when an Asian sale is most likely and that's not good for the market.

                Don't know if you've had a chance to read the series, but we have explored many options where Gibson could trade off market size for quality and continue to grow. Options include:

                1. Sell Epi and focus on boutique- Otherwise they need to ramp up processes knowledge if they want to remain profitable with mass production- Of course, they would have to provide extremely high quality, but it is possible they could grow as boutique only.

                2. Sell Epi and focus mainly on acoustics with electrics as a 2ndary market- A variation on #1, acoustics are a strong market and Gibson's reputation and mindshare have remained strong. And if they provide a small number of high quality electrics, high demand +low quantity could support high price points.

                3. Revamp processes across mass production and run high end as a high quality boutique- This would have been the perfect option 10 years ago and it is still possible. But it would take a lot of work to optimize both businesses and they haven't shown the vision/change management necessary up to this point. Again, all could change if strong leadership shows up soon.

                The only scenario that doesn't make sense is withdrawing to the mass production side- they don't have the process knowledge and they need to retain brand value.
                What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

                Comment


                • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                  My point is simply...there is no objective evidence that Gibson guitar segment is in trouble from an ongoing business perspective...the expansion into other businesses is the problem.

                  Separate subject...Gibson's only significant competition is Fender...Will the evolving guitarist choose SG/Les Paul or Tele/Strat...when he/she reaches the level of wanting a professional grade instrument the price range for both companies is between 1200 and 3500...
                  That is very little money relatively speaking....gaming computers, entertainment centers, automobile options, etc go for more than that...

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                    Originally posted by zionstrat View Post
                    Nope- simply pointing out that Gibson has lost significant marketshare, it is likely to lose more if they don't change, and if it continues, there is a point where the value of the brand will exceed revenue. That's when an Asian sale is most likely and that's not good for the market.

                    Don't know if you've had a chance to read the series, but we have explored many options where Gibson could trade off market size for quality and continue to grow. Options include:

                    1. Sell Epi and focus on boutique- Otherwise they need to ramp up processes knowledge if they want to remain profitable with mass production- Of course, they would have to provide extremely high quality, but it is possible they could grow as boutique only.

                    2. Sell Epi and focus mainly on acoustics with electrics as a 2ndary market- A variation on #1, acoustics are a strong market and Gibson's reputation and mindshare have remained strong. And if they provide a small number of high quality electrics, high demand +low quantity could support high price points.

                    3. Revamp processes across mass production and run high end as a high quality boutique- This would have been the perfect option 10 years ago and it is still possible. But it would take a lot of work to optimize both businesses and they haven't shown the vision/change management necessary up to this point. Again, all could change if strong leadership shows up soon.

                    The only scenario that doesn't make sense is withdrawing to the mass production side- they don't have the process knowledge and they need to retain brand value.
                    Isn’t Epi a money maker and they know what they are doing? Why sell? Wouldn’t they leave a massive space open if they go just boutique?

                    Couldn’t they bite the bullet and leverage the brand on some top of the line overseas guitars? Like branding Gibson with the quality of the Epi Elitist line. It feels like that is working for Fender, the brand stayed strong.

                    I’m not saying they shouldn’t go boutique in the US but it feels that the $1k-2k market is theirs to own.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                      Originally posted by Blille View Post
                      Isn’t Epi a money maker and they know what they are doing? Why sell? Wouldn’t they leave a massive space open if they go just boutique?

                      Couldn’t they bite the bullet and leverage the brand on some top of the line overseas guitars? Like branding Gibson with the quality of the Epi Elitist line. It feels like that is working for Fender, the brand stayed strong.

                      I’m not saying they shouldn’t go boutique in the US but it feels that the $1k-2k market is theirs to own.
                      Yep Keeping Epi is option 3... take a look at 3rd installment for strategies to get the most out of Epi + Gibson

                      Last edited by zionstrat; 09-15-2018, 03:37 PM.
                      What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                        Originally posted by Chistopher View Post
                        You ever play one, or is this hatred based off mere speculation and aesthetics?
                        Aesthetics, obviously.

                        Why, your local guitar store let redneck looking ponytailed sumbiches get their grubby paws on $5k guitars?

                        Our local ones would prolly make me prove I got real Lincoln and BMW keys on my keychain and not just for show and verify my high-700s credit before even letting me so much as breathe in its direction
                        "New stuff always sucks" -Me

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                          Originally posted by justFred View Post
                          Separate subject...Gibson's only significant competition is Fender...Will the evolving guitarist choose SG/Les Paul or Tele/Strat...when he/she reaches the level of wanting a professional grade instrument the price range for both companies is between 1200 and 3500...
                          That is very little money relatively speaking....gaming computers, entertainment centers, automobile options, etc go for more than that...

                          Aren't you forgetting PRS, ESP, and Ibanez?

                          They wouldn't even exist if Gibson hadn't dropped the ball. Especially ESP, that started out intruding in Fender territory but quickly switched to poaching from Gibson customers... same with Ibanez, btw.

                          Anyone notice how there's very little intrusion onto Fender turf from big names these days, just the $99 knockoff crowd??? That itself ought to say something
                          "New stuff always sucks" -Me

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                            Originally posted by Adieu View Post
                            Aesthetics, obviously.

                            Why, your local guitar store let redneck looking ponytailed sumbiches get their grubby paws on $5k guitars?
                            Yes, and if they didn't I would get them on discrimination.
                            You will never understand How it feels to live your life With no meaning or control And with nowhere left to go You are amazed that they exist And they burn so bright
                            Whilst you can only wonder why

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                              Originally posted by Adieu View Post
                              Aren't you forgetting PRS, ESP, and Ibanez?

                              They wouldn't even exist if Gibson hadn't dropped the ball. Especially ESP, that started out intruding in Fender territory but quickly switched to poaching from Gibson customers... same with Ibanez, btw.

                              Anyone notice how there's very little intrusion onto Fender turf from big names these days, just the $99 knockoff crowd??? That itself ought to say something
                              +1
                              "They wouldn't even exist if Gibson hadn't dropped the ball. Especially ESP, that started out intruding in Fender territory but quickly switched to poaching from Gibson customers... same with Ibanez, btw."

                              And don't forget Yamaha-

                              And with all of their problems, Fender's overarching model is excellent-
                              • They hired in gurus from Yamaha to maximize processes
                              • They have always cross sold amps and pro gear which gives dealers great cross sales opportunities
                              • And most important, they have the portfolio extremely well balanced with clear offerings across Squire, MIM, MIJ, US and Custom-



                              It's pretty easy to compare Fender value points and extremely difficult to do the same with Gibson- And Fender announced approaches to new markets long and are investing in women and newbies.
                              What's so Funny about Peace Love and Understanding?

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2019 Gibson Lineup

                                I said this a couple of years ago about th Les PAul BFG. Everyone was all moist panties about it. But when I asked “OK - if it is so effing cool, who has dropped $3200 for half-finished LP with a P-90 in th neck only?” Or something like that, anyone. How many positive replies? Zip, nada, nothing.

                                That is th market SCREAMING “You F&^&ed up Gibson!!!!!!!!!”

                                Modern double cut - same thing. You can get that, or this:

                                Originally posted by Bad City
                                He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

                                Comment

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