banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

    Originally posted by MikeS View Post
    How did I forgot about the S1? The S1 can be wired to work, if you are OK with the change in knobs. I believe they make a flat top version for tele, if that’s more your style. Thanks for the reminder.

    As for no load pots, they work for tone controls, but not volume controls. On 10 it would completely cut the signal.
    No Load pots can be used as Volume controls if you do it this particular way on a dual concentric pot and apply some DIY mod methods to the pot. The pot values in the video need to be adjusted since the video demonstrates for a bass guitar control and here we are talking about a guiar volume control.

    Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 06-20-2020, 11:17 PM.
    Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

      Sorry guys just woken up across the pond haha. I like the S1 idea but I honestly think having one mismatched knob would look a little too bizarre. I'd probably choose to wire the guitar with a master vol and tone over that option. Jack I like your idea about doing it with two push/pulls, though again I'd probably choose to only use two pots so I'd only have to throw one switch.

      Mike would my diagram be okay if I just kept the volume pots all the way up when in series mode? I could totally live with that.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

        Your diagram does place the two pickups in series in any position of the 3-way. That second volume pot running parallel to the pickups is going to be parasitic, and some (higher) frequencies are going to find their way to ground, even on "10". In series mode, that could get pretty dark. Since you're dealing with a semi-hollow, I recommend making a cardboard template that will hold the circuit together while you solder it up, but then also use it to keep everything together to test it all before beginning the process of fishing all that back through an F-Hole.

        As far as the S-1 is concerned, no one said the knobs have to be mismatched... you're allowed to change the other 3

        As for no-loads as volume, I'll concede that with enough DIY modification you can make a lot of things happen. That's a fairly advanced operation, though.

        I'll add a couple other options...
        1) There's another way to wire the push/pull that eliminates the issue with the volume knobs, however, the series mode not override the 3-way. In other words, series mode would work in the middle and neck positions, but the bridge position of the 3-way would effectively be a killswitch in series mode. That may or may not be desirable.
        2) If you want to keep two control pots and like to experiment, there's always the G&L PTB tone circuit. I've used this circuit on a couple of my guitars with complex coil switching so that I don't have to remember which coil combinations use which tone pot. The bass control might also help with taming that fat series mode.

        I know I'm complicating it further by throwing more options at you. If you decide to wire it up as you have it drawn, please report back because I'd be very interested in hearing your experience with how the volume pots act in series mode.
        Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

          Thanks Mike that’s really helpful! It’s good knowing what all my options are. That rules out my diagram, which is fine. I’m totally fine with your option #1. I don’t mind that the series switch doesn’t totally overriding the selector switch, especially if that allows me to keep the 4 pot configuration. Would I have to incorporate something like the diagram shown back in this thread from guitar-mods.com?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

            The diagram from the first post? It would be close to that, but I think I would make a minor change in the push/pull to better suit a 2 volume guitar. I can draw it up, but it will be later in the day or possibly tomorrow.

            I also want to redraw your diagram again just so I'm not sure I'm not missing anything. One thing I didn't do was to consider wiring the volume pots "backwards" to decouple them. I've done a series mod that way on a jazz bass with success, but I was less worried about treble roll-off on the bass than I would be on a guitar.
            Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

              Originally posted by MikeS View Post
              The diagram from the first post? It would be close to that, but I think I would make a minor change in the push/pull to better suit a 2 volume guitar. I can draw it up, but it will be later in the day or possibly tomorrow.

              I also want to redraw your diagram again just so I'm not sure I'm not missing anything. One thing I didn't do was to consider wiring the volume pots "backwards" to decouple them. I've done a series mod that way on a jazz bass with success, but I was less worried about treble roll-off on the bass than I would be on a guitar.
              Wow, Mike, you've mentioned a lot of neat technical tricks and insights in this thread. Thanks for sharing!
              Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                Originally posted by MikeS View Post
                I would make a minor change in the push/pull to better suit a 2 volume guitar. I can draw it up, but it will be later in the day or possibly tomorrow.
                Thank you so much Mike that would be amazing! Like Jack said you’re obviously full of ideas. I’m really grateful for you guys for helping me do this, literally couldn’t do it without you

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                  Did you have any luck with the diagram Mike? No worries if it’s not possible, I would totally settle for wiring the guitar with just a master tone and vol but it would be a shame to lose the four pots.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                    Hey, sorry about that... the good news (for me) is that one of my projects that was on hold for COVID-19 got the green light to proceed on Monday. The bad news is that I haven't had a chance to sit down and draw this out. I didn't forget about you.
                    Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                      Oh congratulations! That's all good man no sweat

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                        Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                        So one thing minimally you will want to change, is to separate the shield/screen from the "cold/-" of the pickup. The shield/screen will still get grounded, but just separate from the pickup's "cold/-". This is done to prevent the EMI/RFI noise present in the signal of the "shield/ground" from getting fed into the output signal when that pickup's "cold/-" is daisy chained In Series with the other pickup. That would add unnecessary noise to your output signal.
                        Jack, I'm trying to take this into account while thinking about my diagram, but I can't quite get my head round this issue. You gave me this feedback in response to my diagram that attempted to integrate the 1728.com diagram with my 335 wiring. What I can't understand is how I ground both the shield and the pickup's cold/- without them being grounded together, because isn't the ground connection continuous? It sounds like you're suggesting that for example I take the shield to the back of a pot, and then the pickup's cold to the back of another pot. But when those pots get grounded together, won't this have the same effect as grounding the shield and the cold together, as they'll still be in contact with each other, via the grounded pots?
                        I hope I explained this clearly enough, it's tricky to describe. If you want me to elaborate I would do a quick drawing of the connections. Thanks for your advice.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                          Originally posted by DenDenDen View Post
                          Jack, I'm trying to take this into account while thinking about my diagram, but I can't quite get my head round this issue. You gave me this feedback in response to my diagram that attempted to integrate the 1728.com diagram with my 335 wiring. What I can't understand is how I ground both the shield and the pickup's cold/- without them being grounded together, because isn't the ground connection continuous? It sounds like you're suggesting that for example I take the shield to the back of a pot, and then the pickup's cold to the back of another pot. But when those pots get grounded together, won't this have the same effect as grounding the shield and the cold together, as they'll still be in contact with each other, via the grounded pots?
                          I hope I explained this clearly enough, it's tricky to describe. If you want me to elaborate I would do a quick drawing of the connections. Thanks for your advice.
                          Hey Den,

                          At that time I did not spot in your diagram that you had already accounted for my concern, by routing the neck pickup's earth wire to ground separate from the neck pickup's ground wire. So you are already set with this issue.

                          What the concern is about those 2 wires in Master Series-Parallel (MSP) switches, is that if you routed the two wires to the same spot (i.e. the middle right lug of the MSP), then in Series mode, then the baseplate and cover of the pickup would get connected to Hot signal and instead of the EMI/RFI that these sources pickup being eliminated by getting sent to ground, they would be amplified and made to be an even worse problem than just being ungrounded.
                          Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                            Thanks for getting back to me Jack. I did separate the shield and the cold for the neck pickup, because the 1728 diagram calls for the cold to go to that lug on the switch, but it obviously doesn't account for a pickup with a separate shield, which I know needs earthing. However, I do have the shield and the cold wired to the same lug for the bridge pickup. Because the 1728 diagram says to ground the pickup's cold - and I know the shield needs to be grounded too - so I wired them both to the ground lug on the bridge volume pot. It's probably hard to interpret on my diagram because I drew the bridge pup's cold and shield wires as one wire theoretically twisted together, but if you follow the wires from the bridge pickup you can see that the one that goes to that lug on the vol pot is marked with both a "-" and an "E" (for Earth, representing the shield wire), which is there to tell me to take both wires there.*
                            Are you saying that it doesn't matter because I did it right with the neck pickup, or is it still a problem? Like I said, I don't really see how I could separate those two wires from contacting each other, when they both go to ground.

                            *If you don't remember, that diagram I posted was only drawn as a reference for me when I came to wire the guitar, so when I drew it I wasn't worried about making it really clear to anyone else, because I didn't think anyone else would see it haha. So that's why it's not too easy to read unfortunately, sorry.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                              Originally posted by DenDenDen View Post
                              Thanks for getting back to me Jack. I did separate the shield and the cold for the neck pickup, because the 1728 diagram calls for the cold to go to that lug on the switch, but it obviously doesn't account for a pickup with a separate shield, which I know needs earthing. However, I do have the shield and the cold wired to the same lug for the bridge pickup. Because the 1728 diagram says to ground the pickup's cold - and I know the shield needs to be grounded too - so I wired them both to the ground lug on the bridge volume pot. It's probably hard to interpret on my diagram because I drew the bridge pup's cold and shield wires as one wire theoretically twisted together, but if you follow the wires from the bridge pickup you can see that the one that goes to that lug on the vol pot is marked with both a "-" and an "E" (for Earth, representing the shield wire), which is there to tell me to take both wires there.*
                              Are you saying that it doesn't matter because I did it right with the neck pickup, or is it still a problem? Like I said, I don't really see how I could separate those two wires from contacting each other, when they both go to ground.

                              *If you don't remember, that diagram I posted was only drawn as a reference for me when I came to wire the guitar, so when I drew it I wasn't worried about making it really clear to anyone else, because I didn't think anyone else would see it haha. So that's why it's not too easy to read unfortunately, sorry.
                              Your diagram in Reply #18 is all set as-is with regards to this topic of separating ground and earth wires. The bridge pickup's earth and ground wires are not part of the MSP switch, so they don't need to be separated. But the neck pickup's two wires need to be separated (which you have already done in your diagram) because it is part of the MSP switch, and my prior reply provides some detail why its necessary.
                              Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 07-05-2020, 07:35 PM.
                              Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                                Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
                                Your diagram in Reply #18 is all set as-is with regards to this topic of separating ground and earth wires.
                                Got it, thanks Jack. Okay I get the distinction between the neck and bridge pickup now - because one pickup's cold goes to the switch. Thanks for clarifying that for me, I've got the pickups now so in the meantime I've decided to wire them in with just a master vol and tone, but I remembered you said something about separating the cold and shield so I wanted to make sure I was doing everything right before going ahead with the work.
                                Thanks again.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X