banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

    Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
    you do want to have each pickup continue to *first* route through each of those two controls before routing to this control and the pickup selector switch.
    Oh man, I did not know this. I think you've understood me correctly. I have a complete diagram, but I drew this so that it's easier to see what I'm planning to do with the switch. The yellow highlighter just differentiates hot from ground. This drawing just substitutes the selector switch for volume pots in the original diagram. So I need to take the pickups' hot wires to the volume and tone pots, and then the DPDT to the selector switch. I guess the pickups' grounds just go straight to the DPDT?
    Thank you for setting me straight with this, I'd really like to be able to implement this mod if I can.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	KlF8Oci.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	58.6 KB
ID:	5820871
    Last edited by DenDenDen; 06-20-2020, 09:44 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

      Originally posted by DenDenDen View Post
      Thank you for clarifying! Can I ask what your results were, and what kind of guitar wiring you implemented the switch into?
      Like I said I plan on doing this in a 335 with the tone controls wired to '50s spec. Because it's a guitar with four pots, the pickups are wired to the pots and not the selector switch (like they would be in a guitar with only a master Vol+tone) so I've had to draw out a diagram that uses the 1728.com switch, but the top left and middle left lugs go to each volume pot instead of the selector shown in the diagram.

      Hope that all makes sense, thanks for getting back to my last post.
      Can you post a diagram of your proposed revision? I want to be sure I'm understanding your proposal correctly. If your proposal is to place the volume pots between the 3-way and the push/pull, it's not going to work. I'd prefer to see a diagram to be sure I'm understanding what you're saying.

      Series modes in 2V guitars is tricky. When both volume pots are in the series, they both function as master volume controls, yet they have different tapers and roll off high frequencies differently. That's why my preference is to lift a pickup from its volume control in series mode, but the 1728.com diagram doesn't have enough poles for that.

      Edit: I should have refreshed before posting... you did post a diagram, but a partial one. Can you post the entire thing?
      Last edited by MikeS; 06-20-2020, 09:56 AM.
      Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

        Originally posted by MikeS View Post
        Can you post the entire thing?
        I'll post the entire thing but it might be a little confusing because I only drew it as a reference for myself, not to be interpreted by anyone else haha.
        I'll explain it so it's easier to understand. It's made a little more confusing by the fact that I'm using Bare Knuckle P90s with "2 conductor, plus screen" wiring to allow me to do this mod. So each pup has three leads, though in the diagram the bridge pickup's screen and ground are twisted together. A "+" next to a lug or wire means it's the pup's hot, a "-" is the cold, and an E (for Earth) is the screen. The highlighter just differentiates the neck pickup wiring from the bridge's.

        I just quickly added in the wiring to tone pots and switch, as that wasn't on there yet as I wouldn't have really needed a diagram to do that part when I came to wiring it up. Does this still qualify as '50s wiring?
        Thanks for your help!

        Click image for larger version

Name:	mOdt6pg.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	30.0 KB
ID:	5820873
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

          I could try redrawing the diagram with some colour coding to make it clearer, like I said this diagram wasn't meant for anyones eyes other than my own haha

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

            Originally posted by DenDenDen View Post
            I'll post the entire thing but it might be a little confusing because I only drew it as a reference for myself, not to be interpreted by anyone else haha.
            I'll explain it so it's easier to understand. It's made a little more confusing by the fact that I'm using Bare Knuckle P90s with "2 conductor, plus screen" wiring to allow me to do this mod. So each pup has three leads, though in the diagram the bridge pickup's screen and ground are twisted together. A "+" next to a lug or wire means it's the pup's hot, a "-" is the cold, and an E (for Earth) is the screen. The highlighter just differentiates the neck pickup wiring from the bridge's.

            I just quickly added in the wiring to tone pots and switch, as that wasn't on there yet as I wouldn't have really needed a diagram to do that part when I came to wiring it up. Does this still qualify as '50s wiring?
            Thanks for your help!

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]105407[/ATTACH]
            So one thing minimally you will want to change, is to separate the shield/screen from the "cold/-" of the pickup. The shield/screen will still get grounded, but just separate from the pickup's "cold/-". This is done to prevent the EMI/RFI noise present in the signal of the "shield/ground" from getting fed into the output signal when that pickup's "cold/-" is daisy chained In Series with the other pickup. That would add unnecessary noise to your output signal.

            I am interested in seeing what additional changes Mike S ends up suggesting as well.
            Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 06-20-2020, 02:03 PM.
            Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

              Originally posted by Jack_TriPpEr View Post
              separate the shield/screen from the "cold/-"
              Thank you, I'll do that.
              But my diagram still places the DPDT "before" vol pots in the signal chain. Didn't you say that I want the switch to be after the pots?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                The colors are fine, I was able to follow your symbols for start, finish, and shield. You've disconnected the shielded ground from the coil lead, which is correct. You've also moved the Neck + to the DPDT, which allows you to slide the neck volume pot in the circuit the way you have. In parallel mode, you're getting the expected outcome.

                In series mode, however, the relationship of the volume pots is a little odd. In the middle position on the 3-way, the two volume pots are in parallel to one another before meeting back up to go into the neck pickup. Each will work as a master volume, but the taper is going to be very steep. With the position of the 3-way in either neck or bridge you will have one volume pot acting as a master volume, while the second is sitting parallel to the pickup. A variable resister to ground sitting parallel to the pickup... I need a little more time to think through how that will impact the tone and the behavior of the pot as you roll it down.

                If you wanted to drill a hole in your guitar, I could fix this with a 4PDT mini-toggle, but I know that's not often a desirable solution. The extra poles allow one of the volume pots (and its associated tone pot) to be removed from the circuit in series mode. But with a DPDT push/pull, I'm drawing a blank.
                Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                  Damn what a pickle I'm in. Can you see why I went to the vol pots in the way I did? I looked at the original DPDT diagram and thought "Well, those wires go to the selector switches 'inputs', but I have pots at that stage, so I'll just wire em there instead!" How naive of me haha. If guitar wiring were a language, I could speak it phonetically, but not literally. I kinda know where things go, but I don't really know why they go there.
                  Thank you very much for your help so far. At this point I'm tempted to wire the guitar with only a master vol and tone and not connect the other pots, so that I can replicate the original 1728.com diagram exactly. That would be a huge shame, but it seems to be the simplest option. I'd love to have my 335 with the proper configuration, so if you or some other mad scientist/magician can help I would be endlessly grateful.
                  Maybe I'll wire the mod in with two pots and decide whether the mod is worth only having a master vol and tone. Trouble is I think it will be haha. Thanks again.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                    Originally posted by MikeS View Post
                    ...if you wanted to drill a hole in your guitar, I could fix this with a 4PDT mini-toggle, but I know that's not often a desirable solution. The extra poles allow one of the volume pots (and its associated tone pot) to be removed from the circuit in series mode. But with a DPDT push/pull, I'm drawing a blank.
                    No need to drill. A Fender S1 Switch is like a push-pull pot but the switch is a 4DPT instead of just a 2DPT. Just replace one of the two volume controls or one of the two tone pots with a Fender S1 Switch.
                    Last edited by Jack_TriPpEr; 06-20-2020, 03:18 PM.
                    Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                      Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                        That's a great suggestion Jack but I've got witch hat knobs so I'm not sure I could use an S1. Isn't that the switch where the top face of the knob acts as a push/push? Also Unfortunately I can't access that link. I'm met with the message "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator", sorry man.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                          Originally posted by DenDenDen View Post
                          That's a great suggestion Jack but I've got witch hat knobs so I'm not sure I could use an S1. Isn't that the switch where the top face of the knob acts as a push/push? Also Unfortunately I can't access that link. I'm met with the message "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator", sorry man.
                          Yes, the S1 Knob has an inner circle portion that depresses in, separate to the "outer ring" of the knob. But there is a Strat-style version of the knob (available in both creme and black) and a Tele-style /chrome barrel version of the knob. Which yes, neither of which is an exact match for witch hat style knob.

                          I'm not sure why that pic did not load; it is just a copy of one i loaded to another thread a few weeks ago. Anyways, below is another attempt with a new copy. If it still doesn't load, what it depicts is a schematic of how the switxhing works on the Fender S1. Which comes up readily when you do an image search for Fender S1 switch.

                          Here's another option on this scenario: let's say you go with all 4 pots (one being a psuh-pull for the Master Series-Parallel switch), no S1 , no other 4DPT switch. I believe you could quickly resolve the issue Mike S is concerned about in Series mode by just raising the volume of the trouble-causing volume pot to 100%. Its a quick manuever, so the problem is brief in its duration, and only occurs *if* that vplume pot wasn't already set to 100%. And if needed, use a No Load Pot for the pot type.

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	fender-s1-wiring-diagram-wiring-diagram-data.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	84.7 KB
ID:	5820875
                          Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                            Yep that picture came through Jack. Sorry man I don't think I could get past having one mismatched knob haha, the S1 is a great idea though.
                            I was going to ask if keeping both Volume pots on full would resolve the issue. I like your idea about no load pots too - intrigued to see what Mike thinks of that idea. Keeping the volumes up wouldn't be an issue for me really.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                              How did I forgot about the S1? The S1 can be wired to work, if you are OK with the change in knobs. I believe they make a flat top version for tele, if that’s more your style. Thanks for the reminder.

                              As for no load pots, they work for tone controls, but not volume controls. On 10 it would completely cut the signal.
                              Duncan Pickups in currently in use: '59 (rewound to PATB-3)/'59, Custom/AP2H, Tapped QP set for Tele, Crazy 8/Cool Rails, Screamin' Demon/Stra-Bro 90, Custom 5/Phat Cat, SP90-1/SP90-2, SMB-5D

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Does this master series-parallel wiring diagram seem valid?

                                Another possibility: since (per the sketch) the Master Series/Parallel switch is being setup as a Push-Pull on the Bridge volume pot, then convert the current Bridge Tone pot to a push-pull also - and wire it its switch to handle the "deactivate the Bridge Volume/Tone" feature that Mike mentioned. The Bridge volume and tone controls are in close enough proximity to each other that you could feasibly pull up (or push down) both controls at the same time. Would be even easier to do so if push-push controls were used instead of push-pull.
                                Sanford: "The hardest part about tone chasing is losing the expectations associated with the hardware."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X