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Thread: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

  1. #161
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Fractal has 'Tone Matching' & Mooer has 'Tone Capture'

    ...two different things.

    Besides... no contest ^^ ..the Mooer sounds way better
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  2. #162
    my banana hammock hosts a leetle peppercini and has hit the skids Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Tone schmone.

    But I agree - the bands I have seen with Kemper - should have used Mooers.
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    Fractal has 'Tone Matching' & Mooer has 'Tone Capture'

    ...two different things.

    Besides... no contest ^^ ..the Mooer sounds way better
    Thats what they said in court to defend about their ehx software theft

    Any solid news out yet from whom they may have copied the stuff in their ge series though, for awhile the guesses have been on Atomic Amplifire, my bet would be on pc software sims like amplitude repackaged in a nice mfx box. Would be nice to know for sure though as to which it is.

  4. #164
    Sock Supplier to RHCP Beer$'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    Fractal has 'Tone Matching' & Mooer has 'Tone Capture'

    ...two different things.

    Besides... no contest ^^ ..the Mooer sounds way better
    Yeah man! I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed with your tone capture demos.
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  5. #165
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank- View Post
    Thats what they said in court to defend about their ehx software theft

    Any solid news out yet from whom they may have copied the stuff in their ge series though, for awhile the guesses have been on Atomic Amplifire, my bet would be on pc software sims like amplitude repackaged in a nice mfx box. Would be nice to know for sure though as to which it is.
    Well if they did help themselves to a bit of code, they were clever enough to leave the copyright notice out & change things around a bit this time (pretty sure losing lawsuits smarten you up)

    Sure, chances are they borrowed a bit of this and that which I'm also sure everybody else does. I'm not really torn apart by the ethics of it 'cause I bought one..it's not a mink coat.

    They seem to reasonably well distributed in the US (and Europe) with Amazon & Thomman selling them. I don't think lightening's going to strike twice

    In this industry (and all others) the hard reality is that it boils down to how much **** you can get away with (w/o being sued). I think if they're guilty of anything it's of being dumber than the competition when it comes to plagiarizing stuff ..but with time I'm sure they'll smarten up and do it just as well as everybody else.

    All that concerns me with any gear is what it does, how it sounds , how much it costs...& can I afford/do I want one
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  6. #166
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    All that concerns me with any gear is what it does, how it sounds , how much it costs...& can I afford/do I want one
    Sad to say that a lot of people don't care about ethics anymore unless it applies directly to them.

  7. #167
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Guilty as charged

    I don't think disguising your product just enough to get away with things is "ethics". Besides, truth be told...I'm not seeing a whole lot of genuine innovation going on anywhere
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    Well if they did help themselves to a bit of code, they were clever enough to leave the copyright notice out & change things around a bit this time (pretty sure losing lawsuits smarten you up)

    Sure, chances are they borrowed a bit of this and that which I'm also sure everybody else does. I'm not really torn apart by the ethics of it 'cause I bought one..it's not a mink coat.

    They seem to reasonably well distributed in the US (and Europe) with Amazon & Thomman selling them. I don't think lightening's going to strike twice

    In this industry (and all others) the hard reality is that it boils down to how much **** you can get away with (w/o being sued). I think if they're guilty of anything it's of being dumber than the competition when it comes to plagiarizing stuff ..but with time I'm sure they'll smarten up and do it just as well as everybody else.

    All that concerns me with any gear is what it does, how it sounds , how much it costs...& can I afford/do I want one
    Well not quite. They copied the entire code as far as ehx was concerned. In the digital realm you get patents more readily compared to analog world where you can get away changing things as long as the circuit isnt 1:1 & asthetically same perhaps, its easier there.

    What mooer did was basucally release Windows under a new name keeping everything else same lol Thats not innovative or smart lol The Ge seties uses prramps from their pedal preamps which were released long time back, with the ge they can use bigger hardware thus increasing the resolution of everything involved. But the initial software is still uh "borrowed" & with mooer products its pretty much 1:1 at the core from what has happened before. Large companies like ehx can pursue a legal route, small developers not so much.

    I do buy stuff from joyo but I acknowledge the fact that they are making profit over another persons design or innovation. I wouldnt try to justify that with the way these Chinese companies work cause I do use these units. No point in denying that or giving excuses.

    But it is good to know where they steal it from too

  9. #169
    PenultimateTone Member Demanic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Hmmm...
    Maybe it's time businesses started taking cybersecurity seriously?

  10. #170
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank- View Post
    No point in denying that or giving excuses.
    I actually acknowledged it and said I did'nt care (there's a difference). I then explained that it does'nt really matter to me to what degree someone copies stuff or how badly/well they hide it. They all do it to different degree's. Pretty sure there's no argument with that. And none of them are paragons of virtue with great ethics either. If US companies could get away with what Chinese companies can get away with they'd be doing the same things & wouldn't have to bother with the fig leaf
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
    I actually acknowledged it and said I did'nt care (there's a difference). I then explained that it does'nt really matter to me to what degree someone copies stuff or how badly/well they hide it. They all do it to different degree's. Pretty sure there's no argument with that. And none of them are paragons of virtue with great ethics either. If US companies could get away with what Chinese companies can get away with they'd be doing the same things & wouldn't have to bother with the fig leaf
    I was referring to my view on the topic. I'm not poo pooing on mooer for being caught stealing or anyones decision to purchase from that company. I simply asked is there any news out yet as to what they sourced it on seeing as they haven't had signature unit that's a new build from ground up & they've already been caught before.

    It's not about being a paragon of virtue, to steal a bit or whole is still stealing, without innovation the world would still be using candles for light, the strive to being innovative is important, which is what gets damaged when a copy is made without permission. Using someone elses innovation for ones own inspiration is not stealing, it involves research & understanding. Majority of Chinese companies in the guitar related gear haven't come up with anything that I can recall as being innovative that stands out, they skip the R from the R&D section which lowers the price of the overall product. Not all companies in the world including China are like that. Releasing a copy of a obsolete product isn't stealing provided there is some reference given to the original. These again are my views on the subject of theft. I wouldn't justify the act just because everyone else is doing it, it's just bad to me.

    Alas my only point being It's always good to know who the source is for the innovation/research that the other product is designed from. If it came from a product that's long been forgotten cause the hardware was lacking to augment the software, then that's something that's interesting to know to me atleast

  12. #172
    my banana hammock hosts a leetle peppercini and has hit the skids Aceman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Our antiquated concepts of IP are about to change. we did not foresee these capabilities at all and are not prepared to deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad City
    He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

  13. #173
    watch where you point that sword Phantasmagoria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank- View Post
    I was referring to my view on the topic. I'm not poo pooing on mooer for being caught stealing or anyones decision to purchase from that company. I simply asked is there any news out yet as to what they sourced it on seeing as they haven't had signature unit that's a new build from ground up & they've already been caught before.

    It's not about being a paragon of virtue, to steal a bit or whole is still stealing, without innovation the world would still be using candles for light, the strive to being innovative is important, which is what gets damaged when a copy is made without permission. Using someone elses innovation for ones own inspiration is not stealing, it involves research & understanding. Majority of Chinese companies in the guitar related gear haven't come up with anything that I can recall as being innovative that stands out, they skip the R from the R&D section which lowers the price of the overall product. Not all companies in the world including China are like that. Releasing a copy of a obsolete product isn't stealing provided there is some reference given to the original. These again are my views on the subject of theft. I wouldn't justify the act just because everyone else is doing it, it's just bad to me.

    Alas my only point being It's always good to know who the source is for the innovation/research that the other product is designed from. If it came from a product that's long been forgotten cause the hardware was lacking to augment the software, then that's something that's interesting to know to me atleast
    I think Chinese companies do tweak stuff they've plagiarized most of the time (the customary cap/resistor change). The Reason Mooer got caught was that in this case (Ehx) they did'nt bother to for some reason (were in a hurry?/thought it sounded just great as it was? ). W/e ..they were caught and paid the price. I just said that I don't see them doing things so shabbily again and consequently you may never know what unit if any they're basing it on

    As for as my personal views on plagiarism go...I honestly don't care at all. Maybe I'm just immoral haha...

    I think if a Chinese company rips off a $300 pedal (let's say a really clever green overdrive clone ), saves bigtime on the immense R$D that must have been involved and passes on the benefits to their customers by selling it for $30 ...they could conceivably (justifiably?) be looked at as being kinda 'ethical' in a Robin Hood-ish kinda way .who knows

    But then as I said I don't care.

    Bottom line if it's a nice product at a nice price (that's not banned/I know hasn't fallen off a truck) ..I'll buy it if I want it

    The Mooer is a great sounding unit that does a better job with some things than units costing 3 times as much do (tone cap video). If all they (Mooer) did was rip stuff off...it would/could at best sound on par ..not better.

    Judging from my own unit, the video & other videos I've watched it doesn't sound like any of the competition (...although I don't hear any huge difference in the sound quality of the sims/effects etc). It's a nice sounding modeller and for all that it does & does really well, which is a lot ...the price is really great too
    Last edited by Phantasmagoria; 01-23-2020 at 08:04 PM.
    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney Gene View Post
    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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