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Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

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  • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

    Originally posted by Aceman View Post
    See - this is what I find odd. I'd think you had to model the amp by setting every knob at every level, etc....

    A treble knob going from 7-8 might be a different change than 8-9, and maybe 9-10 does almost nothing, and so on. Same thing with gain curves, etc....

    My "one pic" of an amp is useless the moment I turn a knob that doesn't work the way the Kemper algorithm says, if I'm all about the 'reproduction.'

    That said - maybe it does cool things. - just not exact copy things.
    This is why when everybody's saying, "Modeling/Profiling" and I'm saying, "They're not synonyms," it's not splitting hairs. They are NOT doing the same thing.

    Now, the only person I've heard point out the example I used was Keith Merrow. If you're familiar with him, you know that absolutely nothing he does is focused on recreating classic amp tones of the 60's and 70's. If having every tone possible from a Deluxe, a Plexi, and an AC30 is the goal, getting those amps is probably still the best option.

    However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
    “I can play the hell out of a riff. The rest of it’s all bulls**t anyway,” Gary Holt

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    • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

      Originally posted by Aceman View Post
      See - this is what I find odd. I'd think you had to model the amp by setting every knob at every level, etc....

      A treble knob going from 7-8 might be a different change than 8-9, and maybe 9-10 does almost nothing, and so on. Same thing with gain curves, etc....

      My "one pic" of an amp is useless the moment I turn a knob that doesn't work the way the Kemper algorithm says, if I'm all about the 'reproduction.'

      That said - maybe it does cool things. - just not exact copy things.
      Kemper doesn't model the amp, maybe that's the next step. That will take a lot more processing bandwidth than replicating snapshots.

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      • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

        Originally posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
        This is why when everybody's saying, "Modeling/Profiling" and I'm saying, "They're not synonyms," it's not splitting hairs. They are NOT doing the same thing.

        Now, the only person I've heard point out the example I used was Keith Merrow. If you're familiar with him, you know that absolutely nothing he does is focused on recreating classic amp tones of the 60's and 70's. If having every tone possible from a Deluxe, a Plexi, and an AC30 is the goal, getting those amps is probably still the best option.

        However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
        I always thought the whole point of Kemper was that you get to "freeze" the sound you have. When there's all these countless factors affecting tone, Kemper is the closest you can get to maintain "that exact tone".
        "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
        Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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        • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

          As a scholar I have, in fact, looked a bit into the possibilities of using the Kemper as a scholarly tool, but as far as I can tell, reproductions do not seem to be accurate enough to make it worthwhile.
          Last edited by Sirion; 08-17-2019, 02:50 AM.

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          • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

            Originally posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
            However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
            That's why I really love my Digitech Chorus Factory. It starts with a foundational chorus tone, but then adds other stuff to it. Could you model an "exact" chorus and setting? Yeah, I suppose with some major tweaking.

            Can I get get awesome chorus? All damn day easily.
            Originally posted by Bad City
            He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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            • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

              Originally posted by JB_From_Hell View Post
              However, your "maybe it does cool things - just not exact copies" statement is the key here. I'm interested in coming up with new stuff, so I'd rather have cool things than copies.
              That's why I really love my Digitech Chorus Factory. It starts with a foundational chorus tone, but then adds other stuff to it. Could you model an "exact" chorus and setting? Yeah, I suppose with some major tweaking.

              Can I get get awesome chorus? All damn day easily.
              Originally posted by Bad City
              He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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              • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                I like the chorus of comments about the chorus factory. Very meta.
                Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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                • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                  I took the plunge last week and....

                  At rehearsal tonight our singer said "holy ****, that thing sounds exactly like your amp". There are some fantastic profiles out there, but I really like using my dirtier tones and profiles two channels in my amp

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                  • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                    I don't know how Kemper does it's profiling, but the way my Mooer GE300 does it's "Tone Capturing" is very effective (apparently different from Kemper's approach) and uses an onboard amp-model of the amp being profiled as a sort of 'blueprint' for the tone being captured from your actual amp that you're profiling. As a result your controls respond like the amp model 'blueprint' after the profile is done so it's actually insanely close to your real amp at any setting.

                    In the case of the Mooer you need to to match the output & gain levels of the onboard amp model you're using as the 'blueprint' to output and gain levels on the real amp (that you're profiling/capturing) when you're doing the "Tone Capture'. Do that right (easy as pie) and the results are always pretty sweet..

                    "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                    I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                    Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                    If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


                    Youtube

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                    • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                      Mooer uses Fractal approach of Tone Capture. It would be fascinating to know if they copied the code from another amp modeling giant, they were sued by ehx lately for copying theirs. Their tone capture process makes me wonder if they have fractal algos running under the hood

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                      • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                        Fractal has 'Tone Matching' & Mooer has 'Tone Capture'

                        ...two different things.

                        Besides... no contest ^^ ..the Mooer sounds way better
                        "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                        I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                        Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                        If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


                        Youtube

                        Comment


                        • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                          Tone schmone.

                          But I agree - the bands I have seen with Kemper - should have used Mooers.
                          Originally posted by Bad City
                          He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...

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                          • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                            Originally posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
                            Fractal has 'Tone Matching' & Mooer has 'Tone Capture'

                            ...two different things.

                            Besides... no contest ^^ ..the Mooer sounds way better
                            Thats what they said in court to defend about their ehx software theft

                            Any solid news out yet from whom they may have copied the stuff in their ge series though, for awhile the guesses have been on Atomic Amplifire, my bet would be on pc software sims like amplitude repackaged in a nice mfx box. Would be nice to know for sure though as to which it is.

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                            • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                              Originally posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
                              Fractal has 'Tone Matching' & Mooer has 'Tone Capture'

                              ...two different things.

                              Besides... no contest ^^ ..the Mooer sounds way better
                              Yeah man! I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed with your tone capture demos.
                              The opinions expressed above do not necessarily represent those of the poster and are to be considered suspect at best.

                              Lead guitarist and vocalist of...



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                              • Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

                                Originally posted by Hank- View Post
                                Thats what they said in court to defend about their ehx software theft

                                Any solid news out yet from whom they may have copied the stuff in their ge series though, for awhile the guesses have been on Atomic Amplifire, my bet would be on pc software sims like amplitude repackaged in a nice mfx box. Would be nice to know for sure though as to which it is.
                                Well if they did help themselves to a bit of code, they were clever enough to leave the copyright notice out & change things around a bit this time (pretty sure losing lawsuits smarten you up)

                                Sure, chances are they borrowed a bit of this and that which I'm also sure everybody else does. I'm not really torn apart by the ethics of it 'cause I bought one..it's not a mink coat.

                                They seem to reasonably well distributed in the US (and Europe) with Amazon & Thomman selling them. I don't think lightening's going to strike twice

                                In this industry (and all others) the hard reality is that it boils down to how much **** you can get away with (w/o being sued). I think if they're guilty of anything it's of being dumber than the competition when it comes to plagiarizing stuff ..but with time I'm sure they'll smarten up and do it just as well as everybody else.

                                All that concerns me with any gear is what it does, how it sounds , how much it costs...& can I afford/do I want one
                                "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                                I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                                Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                                If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


                                Youtube

                                Comment

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