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Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

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  • #16
    Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

    I appreciate these updates. I don't know how to do things like re-fretting, so I am fascinated by the process.
    Administrator of the SDUGF

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    • #17
      Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

      What I've learned so far:

      - Quaker oats are not the best neck rest for hammering frets. They have too much give. I think I'm going to try something harder next time. Maybe a sandbag from our local home depot or something. with a blanket over top to give a touch of cushioning.

      - If you're going to wipe superglue off of something, use a paper towel . . . not a kleenex. The kleenex will stick and leave a bunch of fuzzy stuff that is really hard to get off.

      - Deadblow hammers suck for fretting. Use a block of wood. If you're using a block of wood, be careful that you've got it only touching the fret. If the edges are touching the fretboard when you tap they'll put a mark into it. (I wasn't paying attention and put a small mark into the fretboard around the 18th fret this way.)

      - Buy more fretwire than you need. Between bending, mis-hitting, and having the one fret not seat properly, I think I ****ed up at least five pieces.
      Last edited by GuitarStv; 08-26-2019, 07:35 AM.
      Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

      Originally posted by Douglas Adams
      This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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      • #18
        Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

        Originally posted by ICTGoober View Post
        Okay, I see a problem. The tang on the Jescar fretwire is .036 wide.... Most fret slots on those old Japanese axes with the mandolin fretwire is around .023 or smaller. You'll have to carefully widen the fret slots, or fretting the neck will compress the fretboard and bend the neck backwards into an upbow you cannot adjust with the truss rod.
        Yeah, I compared the fret tang on the old and new wire and saw that there was a big difference so scraped stuff out with an exacto-blade then ran the edge of a thin paint chipper through it. No idea what the width of that is, but it seems to have allowed the frets to go in OK. Then neck is still pretty straight at least.



        Originally posted by ICTGoober View Post
        Also - those whammies on those Japanese guitars do NOT work at all. Suggest you make it a hardtail.
        I've never been able to get it to work properly on this guitar, but haven't taken it apart to see what was going on in there. I feel like you're probably right though, it doesn't seem like the design will work properly. It looks like there's some kind of lock-out mechanism that can be engaged to make it a hardtail though.
        Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

        Originally posted by Douglas Adams
        This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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        • #19
          Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

          Stainless just gums up the file
          File a bit
          As it "dulls"
          Run the file over regular steel to clean it out
          The back to the stainless
          EHD
          Just here surfing Guitar Pron
          RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
          SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
          Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
          Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
          Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
          Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
          GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

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          • #20
            Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

            Originally posted by ehdwuld View Post
            Stainless just gums up the file
            File a bit
            As it "dulls"
            Run the file over regular steel to clean it out
            The back to the stainless
            Weird that it would be gummier. I'd figure it would be less likely to gum up because it's harder.
            Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

            Originally posted by Douglas Adams
            This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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            • #21
              Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

              It doesn't dull as much as loads the file
              EHD
              Just here surfing Guitar Pron
              RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
              SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
              Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
              Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
              Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
              Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
              GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                Stainless just gums up the file
                NO. In all my decades making stainless aircraft parts it didn't get gummy. Aluminum did.

                Get a file card to clear the chips. If it's clogging a lot - the file is dull from rattling around in a sea of tools. Or, buy a new Nicholson bastard single cut file that is FLAT. Check it on a piece of glass.
                aka Chris Pile, formerly of Six String Fever

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                • #23
                  Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                  There are many grades of stainless Goob
                  Some are magnetic and structural
                  Some are non magnetic

                  Some are food grade
                  Some are aircraft grade

                  My experience differs
                  EHD
                  Just here surfing Guitar Pron
                  RG2EX1 w/ SD hot-rodded pickups / RG4EXFM1 w/ Carvin S22j/b + FVN middle
                  SR500 / Martin 000CE-1/Epiphone Hummingbird
                  Epiphone Florentine with OEM Probuckers
                  Ehdwuld branded Blue semi hollow custom with JB/Jazz
                  Reptile Green Gibson Custom Studio / Aqua Dean Shire semi hollow with piezo
                  Carvin Belair / Laney GC80A Acoustic Amp (a gift from Guitar Player Mag)
                  GNX3000 (yea I'm a modeler)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                    haha Goob!

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                    • #25
                      Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                      There are many grades of stainless Goob
                      Some are magnetic and structural
                      Some are non magnetic

                      Some are food grade
                      Some are aircraft grade

                      My experience differs
                      No food grade experience here. All my industrial training was as a tool & die guy here in Wichita's aircraft industry. Let's talk Inconel, Titanium, Waspaloy, and Monel. All fun turning blocks of metal into shiny little chips. I still dream about it sometimes.
                      aka Chris Pile, formerly of Six String Fever

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                      • #26
                        Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                        @GuitarStv: I'm starting to hope that you'll find many more guitars that you can "ruin". Excellent writings! Anxiously waiting for the next updates like it's some super exciting TV series - only it's better!

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                        • #27
                          Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                          Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                          I like big frets. Going with Jescar 57110 Stainless Steel Fret Wire:

                          Have you thought about how cramped .110" frets will feel on a 24" scale instrument? They feel cramped to me even on 25.5" scale, and even 6230s (.078" wide) feel cramped to me on my Jaguar (24" scale).

                          What about 6105s (.090" x .055"), or 6150s (.102" x .042"), which would be getting toward the feel of the 6100s you like, but would not feel as cramped on the short scale neck?

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Last edited by ItsaBass; 08-26-2019, 11:04 PM.
                          Originally posted by LesStrat
                          Yogi Berra was correct.
                          Originally posted by JOLLY
                          I do a few chord things, some crappy lead stuff, and then some rhythm stuff.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                            Congratulations, you're learning from your own experience and mistakes how to do a fairly involved job just using "stone-age" tools and Mac Guyver techniques. It's a complex job even using all the proper fretting tools. Well done!

                            Now you have some fret leveling, crowning, and polishing to do. Also, fret end filing so you don't cut up your hand as you play.

                            Keep us posted.
                            Originally Posted by IanBallard
                            Rule of thumb... the more pot you have, the better your tone.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                              Well, last night was boring.

                              I've got four files:

                              A small pointy triangular one:


                              A big flat one:


                              An actual luthier type tool that I was told I'd need for this (it has like weird rounded concave cutting edge):


                              And the tiniest, itsy bitsiest small toothed flat file that I could find at the hardware store.

                              I've only needed the big ass one and the tiny flat one so far.


                              So, The first thing I wanted to do was get rid of all the pokey and painful fret ends.
                              - Turn the neck so that the frets are pointing to the right, put the big flat file on top of the frets, move the file back and forth across all the frets evenly. Then panic that you're doing something wrong and are going to ruin stuff and stop.
                              - Turn the neck so that the frets are face up, hold the fret flat against them on the right hand side. Now you can see a tiny gap between the file and the neck . . . that's caused by the fret ends sticking out. File away (just slide the file back and forth . . . you need to apply a little pressure, but not too much) until that gap disappears. This is much better because you can see what the hell you're doing and are much less likely to accidentally wreck anything.
                              - So, initially I started out so that I was filing at about 90 degrees to the frets. But then when I ran my hand over it it didn't feel right. I checked some of my other guitars, and it looks like the edge is usually beveled. You don't want to bevel too much, because then you've got less playing area on the top of the fret, but too little will make the frets feel uncomfy in your hand. I settled on about 30 degrees. Adjusted the file, and went at it again.
                              - The file didn't really seem to dull. I just tapped it against the corner of a garbage can and occasionally wiped it off with a rag to get the bits of metal out. You want to keep going until you're just starting to make contact with the wood at the edge of the neck. Go slow at the end.

                              This process didn't take too long (maybe 40 minutes or so) and was pretty easy.

                              So, at this point I ran my hands up and down the neck again. Nothing was sticking out, but it still felt scratchy. The problem was the edges . . . I appeared to have filed them razor sharp. So then I took my itsy bitsy flat file and rounded off every fret. After slightly scratching the fret board with the first pass I made over the fret end, I decided to put some painters tape over the board. After that, it was pretty straight forward to round off all the fret edges working one by one. But it ****ing took forever. Just file, run your hand up and down over the fret and when it's smooth go to the next one. This was easily two, two and a half hours. It's done now (finally), and feels great when I run my hands up and down the board. This was the most boring part of fretwork so far.

                              So, next up would be leveling the frets. To prep for it, I took a small metal string action guage that I've got that's about 3 1/2 inches by 2 inches:


                              It has straight edges, so I just laid it across three frets at a time and rocked it to see if the middle fret was high or not. When I got to the higher frets I had to use the smaller side. Then any parts that were too high, I marked with a sharpie on the fret. (On the highest frets it was too wide to do this.) My plan is that tomorrow I'll take the big flat file and lightly run it over the tops of the frets, paying the most attention to the areas with sharpie. I'll keep checking with my ghetto fret rocker until they're all at about the same height, and then (since the tops of some of the frets will be pretty flat) figure out fret crowning.

                              Pro Tip - When you notice a large pile of metal shavings/dust all over the living room floor . . . quickly but quietly get the vacuum cleaner and remove all evidence before your wife finds out. Also, pick up a half doze stainless steel fret ends that have flown all over the place. She'll be happy that you're cleaning things, you'll be happy that she's not angry at you for doing something that probably isn't even damaging the living room too much.


                              What I learned today:
                              - Be really careful with the pointy end of your big flat file (the red part in the pic). It will jab you over and over as you're working with it. If you have the capability, maybe cut it off. I might try that tomorrow with a hack saw.
                              - Filing stuff is easy, but very slow and boring as ****.





                              Originally posted by ItsaBass View Post
                              Have you thought about how cramped .110" frets will feel on a 24" scale instrument? They feel cramped to me even on 25.5" scale, and even 6230s (.078" wide) feel cramped to me on my Jaguar (24" scale).

                              What about 6105s (.090" x .055"), or 6150s (.102" x .042"), which would be getting toward the feel of the 6100s you like, but would not feel as cramped on the short scale neck?

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]100643[/ATTACH]
                              Nope, I did not think of that at all. Just bought an lb of the biggest frewire that I could get. Bigger is better, right? (Actually, my main reasoning was that stanless steel lasts a long time, and big frets last a long time . . . so together they should just about last forever so I never have to do this **** again.)

                              I guess we'll find out when the strings go back on. Just handling the neck it doesn't feel too bad though. There's a reasonable size gap that you can get your fingers in even at the 21st fret. There's a reason I'm trying this first on a guitar that I kinda hate.

                              :P


                              (I was actually hoping to use this fretwire for doing an old virtually fretless mandolin that I've got too. In retrospect, that is likely asking a touch too much of it.)
                              Last edited by GuitarStv; 08-27-2019, 09:24 AM.
                              Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                              Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                              This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Watch me ruin a guitar I kinda hate!

                                Oh, new question for everyone. How do you get all the tool marks out of the frets after leveling and make them perfectly smooth? Sandpaper? (What grit?) Steel wool?
                                Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                                Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                                This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

                                Comment

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